I can maybe understand finding value in a machine-written novel if others also read it and enjoyed it, but having an LLM spit out a novel and reading it in isolation, that would be a complete waste of time to me.
If I find out after the fact that an AI wrote it, the writing becomes bland, like a magic trick exposed.
Not that I doubt that one day people will simply gather around the AI infinite story creation bot. They just won't know what they're missing. :(
More seriously, the novel is a unidirectional medium of communication. Not a relationship. That said, it is meant to convey a perspective. I don't care if it's a human, a robot, or a little green man's perspective. It just has to be an interesting, useful, or enlightening perspective that I didn't already share.
Right now LLM's don't really have unique perspectives, that may change. So I withhold judgement. As of today, I wouldn't read an LLM's novel. In 10 years, who knows?
> The value comes from the simple relationship between the text and the reader
This is not some universal truth, yet you state it as such.
People can get different things from a text.
or even a bunch of characters, bunch of pixels and so on.
To me this is the wrong level of abstraction that is not sufficient to encode the meaning of literature.
In the same way that I don't need the lumber in my house "hand sawed" for it to achieve my goal of creating a habitable space.
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But more broadly, I do think there's space to at least question the use and role of AI.
Because while content can (and should) be addressed directly, there's a valid meta-conversation about the intent of producing content, and the results producing that content might have.
What goal does producing this content achieve?
What is the role of this content in society?
Is this content, on this scale, an appropriate thing to be making?
These are MUCH harder questions - often because we've shifted from concrete (content) to abstract (value judgements).
To go back to my housing analogy: We're no longer evaluating the benefits of hand-sawed vs power sawed timber. We're discussing whether our housing is built in the right spots, if we're building enough of it, and are we allocating it in the right ways.
This is irrelevant because we’re not using the source to judge the strength of an argument. Logical fallacies have only to do with the strength of a logical argument, nothing else.
To illustrate this, if I sell you some energy and you ask whether the energy comes from burning children or from a solar farm, I can’t say that it’s a logical fallacy for you to care because all energy powers your home just the same. You don’t owe any consideration to the content (energy) at all, because energy is not an argument that is subject to the source fallacy, to treat it as such is a fundamental category error.
Even to take your tack and say “We should consider the energy generated from burning children apart from its source, because we don’t want to fall prey to the source fallacy. However, the societal effects should also be taken into consideration…” shouldn’t be countenanced.
But since I know the human history of the road, it _feels_ different when I'm on it than other machine-built roads.
It's the same in a hand-made house. Knowing the human labor gives the house a different vibe.
If we look at 10 paintings and one was painted by a human master artist, it becomes, to me, more impressive than the AI works, even if it isn't the award-winner.
These sentiments are incredibly subjective, of course. Some people simply feel no difference between a hand-made brick and a machine-made brick other than the latter is likely cheaper and of higher material quality.
But for those of us looking for the indescribable _soul_ of the work, we fail to find it in those produced by machine.
I just visited Lowell National Park and watched the mechanical looms in action. The cloth they produced was blandly soulless, like all the cloth we use and wear and discard. The loom itself, on the other hand, was a hand-built mechanical work of art, and felt amazingly _human_ by compassion.
This isn't something we tend to value in the US, though. The closest we get is people hanging their kids' childhood art on the walls and buying custom art at great expense to increase social standing. And a few support-your-indy-artist types.
Well, because roads are hard to build and take a lot of energy, it's going to be way narrower, curvier, and hillier. The guy shoveling out rocks all day would have gladly switched the shovel for a bulldozer.
But all of these value statements about value statements are kind of ignoring the Moloch problem in the corner of the room. What becomes the purpose of humans in a world of automation? At our current rate, it's being exterminated under the boots of corporations that swallow up all the value in the universe. The conversation of "How can things be made better for all humankind" seems to have disappeared after the greed is good conversation won.
Changes to that corpus that reflect the real world are going to come from incorporating future works created by humans. (LLM generated training data can reinforce fidelity to the current corpus but don't alter it.) The future still belongs to human creativity.
> What's valuable in a novel (or a poem) is in the words.
Even if the words are a lie? Misleading? False?
I'm not even talking about LLMs. What if it's propaganda designed to influence your thinking, possibly against your own interests; are those still valuable words that you'd cherish reading?
My point is that the source matters, intent matters, and authenticity matters. To me, anyway.
If a machine could truly provoke thoughts as well as a human author, then yeah it'd be worth reading its work, too.
You would care about that story, until you found out that this story is a lie, an old April’s fools joke that escaped confinement. The words are the same, but your reactions to the exact words have changed with new information about the source.
When we read personal stories it affects our emotions as we empathize with the author, or otherwise share the feelings that the author is trying to convey. When we find out there is no such author, our empathy and our notion of shared feelings vanishes with the new information even though the words stay the same.
This is something I have a lot of trouble explaining and generally don't try to because I've never actually studied this or anything. So I can only go from my 45 years experiencing of experiencing art along with others.
Of course if you are just putting on music to work to, this isn't going to matter much if at all, but...
Generally people do really seem to care about the person behind something they are experiencing. The simplest example I can give is one of those extremely well shot photos that very few people have taken from a sitting position of their feet dangling off a massive building. I would have a very hard time believing anyone claiming that such a photo wouldn't give them very different feelings if they knew it was a real person v not. Again, this is the simplest example I can think of but I think it goes much deeper with all sorts of art, ie, most people to some degree are attempting experiencing art through the person who created it whether they "know" it or not. This is evident when presented with something they don't like and say something like, "Who would make this?"
> When we read personal stories it affects our emotions as we empathize with the author, or otherwise share the feelings that the author is trying to convey. When we find out there is no such author, our empathy and our notion of shared feelings vanishes with the new information even though the words stay the same.
This isn't true for me. If I read an incredibly moving poem and later learned that it was written by someone casting the I Ching and picking words out of a hat, it would not affect how I felt about the poem.
No, I wouldn't. I don't live in Seattle, and I don't care about octopi. Why project what you think a reader cares about?
I don’t want a mathematical approximation of writing informed by feelings, knowledge, experiences, etc. anymore than I would want to see an “AI band” perform just because the music is supposedly great. There’s no personality, there’s nothing personal period.
I'd argue that most folks get plenty of value from the content itself, entirely separate from the intent, context, or even existence of the author.
I don't care about the motivations of the director to enjoy an action movie. I don't care about the life history of the author to enjoy a good fiction.
I think there is (and should be) space for content where people care, but I'd suggest it's the fringes (ex - majority of music is production grade pop, not meaningful songs, majority of books sales are erotic fiction, etc).
But the fiction is a product of the author's lived experiences. If the author had lived a different life, they would have written a different book. Or none at all. Without life experience, where would stories even come from? Why would they matter at all?
This is the entire issue though. We’ve boiled creation down to “consumable content” like we are all in a boardroom talking market strategy. I am reading a book to enrich my life. Yes I enjoy popcorn entertainment and “low brow“ stuff, not everything needs to be Citizen Kane, but what does it say about us if we’re willing to just sit around “consuming” LLM content which is just facsimiles of actual creation by real people? What is the point when we have more “content to consume” than ever before? It’s just saturating us with impersonal stuff lazily achieved by scraping the real thing and prompting until it outputs something acceptable. Why is the person even making it? The answer unfortunately is almost always “a quick buck,” so I’m not sold.
What is the point of reading a middling fantasy book that a person didn’t even create when there are already likely countless fantasy books in existence/being written right now?
Anything.
While I subscribe to an absurdist viewpoint rather than the nihilists, attempting to take an objective view on what one should consume is a difficult and most likely completely incorrect task.
The entire talk of should we mass product LLM crap generally side tracks the discussion of 'how can we create a world where everyone can consume mindless crap instead of endless toil'.
...and you don't need to know those things, that's insane. But you very likely are, even (not so) subconsciously, questioning some of these things.