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by TheCleric12 hours ago |
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upvoteby smallmancontrov11 hours ago|
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"Not required" but my teachers made it abundantly clear what they thought of being forced to allow ungrateful troublemakers to disrespect their country.

I always disliked the Pledge and began to strongly dislike it after moving away from the religion it tries to establish as the national religion, but I was keenly aware that picking this fight would cost me considerable political capital and chose not to.

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upvoteby Hizonner12 hours ago|
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Somehow nobody ever bothers to mention to the kids that it's not required.

How many schools still do it, though? Honestly you could tell me it was almost universal or very rare, and I'd have to believe you either way.

Of course, Canada was doing the freaking Lord's Prayer in schools until freaking 1988. I don't know about other countries, but wouldn't be surprised.

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upvoteby ryandrake12 hours ago|
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In the US schools I'm familiar with, it's "not required" kind of like how it's not required to attend meetings at work. Nobody's forcing you, but it will be noticed and there will be consequences.
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upvoteby embedding-shape12 hours ago|
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> there will be consequences

What sort of consequences? I'm guessing the US got rid of corporal punishment, and since it's optional, could they give like detention and stuff for it? Or is this more about being bullied/similar by peers?

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upvoteby kube-system12 hours ago|
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When I was in school decades ago, the consequences were that the teacher would single you out and scold you to “follow directions”, maybe they’d do whatever write up for not following directions. I’m sure in some places kids got detention or letters sent home to their parents, etc.

Also the US did not get rid of corporal punishment entirely, the south still has it in some places. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_corporal_punishment_in_...

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upvoteby ryandrake11 hours ago|
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Sometimes it's not even direct consequences. You stand out as "that kid" and suddenly, you aren't given the benefit of the doubt the next time there is some kind of conflict at school. Or you are held to the rules -just a bit- more strictly than everyone else. Or, if your grade is on the border between a B+ and A-, they'll give you the B where they give the more obedient kids the A. When you become "that kid" the consequences can be almost invisible and insidious.

At least in the US, teachers and administrators are given rather broad latitude to treat students differently, without requiring justification and very often based on their own personal biases and prejudices.

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upvoteby jodrellblank6 hours ago|
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The irony of (teacher) reciting a pledge in support of 'liberty and justice for all' and then falling apart because a child has tried to use some of that liberty, then wishing and perpetuating injustice upon them in retaliation, is strong.

If one's ideals fall over so easily, what would happen in the event of an actual serious attack on those ideals?

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upvoteby inigyou6 hours ago|
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It's because it's not an ideal. North Korea does a very similar pledge thing where they call themselves the only democracy and so on. It isn't true, it's just brainwashing.
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upvoteby cindyllm6 hours ago|
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