Didn't they bring hundreds of millions out of poverty, and built amazing cities and facilities in the past 30 years?
>Domestic consumption in China is famously low
Compared to what, the US? Compared to China is at a historical high, isn't it? And they're doing quite well even compared to like 70% of the world and rising.
Yes, but China-bad ideology demands that we ask ”at what cost?”
China overproduced STEM grads so that their industries could hire them for pennies on the dollar. They had to withstand insane competition starting in elementary school, only to end up unemployed or doordashing.
This isn’t a PRC specific thing either, TSMC is infamous for having PhDs doing night shift lab tech work for pennies (comparatively).
Engineers from Taiwan go to mainland China these days to earn more money. Taiwan was pretty brutal with personal sacrifice in its development as much or if more than the mainland. We could say similar about Korea, Japan, and Singapore as well. This is why Asia seems to be taking over the world now, but the people are about as happy as you’d expect.
I don't know why people keep bringing this up as though it is surprising.
In almost any field other than AI PhDs are underpaid on average.
There are many, many bio PhDs working as lab technicians.
Basically true, but not much more than that for most Chinese. The urban modern success story presented to the world is a surprisingly small segment of a notably larger population and even for many in that smaller more fortunate segment the gravy days are long ago and no sign of returning yet.
https://eastasiaforum.org/2011/08/19/in-the-city-but-not-of-...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/jul/16/hong-kong-book...
Five arrested in Hong Kong bookstore raids in ‘seditious’ materials crackdown
Third round of arrests linked to independent bookshops widely regarded as clampdown on dissent in territory
So did the western world.
Ask Poland, the Baltics and East Germany if they want communism back. I'll wait. :)
I am so tired of the praise of China online while condemning the west. Worst part is you probably live in the west.
*Nono, dont reply, just downvote instead :)
China has built high speed rail, a quality universal health care system, and huge tech and mfg sectors. It most certainly is orders of magnitude above East Germany, and not even the same type of socialism.
There are good things about the West and good things about China, it’s not as simple as “our side good”.
They only got it good when the USA opened relations in the 80s something they never did with Soviet.
China does not have universal health care.
China helps Russia invade Ukraine. That is simple. Unless you like that too?
Also, where do people want to live? North EU. Yet when we keep our lands people call us racist.
I don't see any merit in these simplistic world views.
The world isn't Lord of the Rings, it's more A Song Of Ice And Fire.
What I'm tired of is zero-sum jingoistic nationalism of any kind. Can we just be happy for all of the world to prosper?
edit: I didn't downvote you but it's probably the uncalled-for cynicism.
We could, but don't expect the results to be as clear cut as you think :)
https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/homesick-for-a-...
https://www.economist.com/europe/2017/10/12/many-eastern-eur...
https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2009/11/02/end-of-communi...
https://brnodaily.com/2023/11/20/news/poll-17-of-czechs-say-...
https://english.radio.cz/poll-less-25-feel-better-now-under-...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_nostalgia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostalgie
And of course 2026 China is the very opposite of some failing economy, like Eastern Bloc countries have been in 1989.
It doesn’t even have to be foreign - it can just be corrupt self interest.
What other explanation is there for attacking Venezuela and Iran?
You could ban Chinese IoT devices. Or spur local industry. But we aren’t talking about the military relying on Chinese hardware or something.
It seem to me that China choosing to subsidize industry it is not so different than the US choosing to subsidize Roads, Autos and OIL.
In both cases it does seem to work splendidly as intended.
Other than political inertia (or economic reasons far beyond my ability to fathom) there is nothing to stop the US from following suit.
I accept "free market" is a term of art probably from before global trade reality and could be narrowly redefined to mean whatever one wants (or wanted when it was coined) but in my ignorance I see it simply as free to choose actions and responses.
But I am far far away from opinions I am qualified to hold, think I will shut up now.
I think even the Chicago school would agree that roads should be public
> autos
I absolutely detest US policy with respect to autos so I will not refute this
> oil
Matter of strategic importance that isn’t related to spying or subterfuge. The Nazis probably would have won WWII if they hadn’t run out of diesel. I’m not sure digital cameras come close to this.
I do know liberal is used as a derisive term by the people we (US) are being led by which leads me to cognitive dissonance parsing your statement.
> As a country that’s suffered from the US subsidising its own industries
New Zealand. Meat exports and dairy.
https://www.oecd.org/en/blogs/2026/06/industrial-subsidies-h...
As in "selling below the cost of production".
I would say that China is trying to steer the car makers away from competing locally, as it's going to result in a price war. But that's not quite dumping per se.
It's almost like you believe the US remains interested in promoting free trade.
If it did, it wouldn't be levying illegal and constantly changing import tariffs, in violation of international trade agreements that it has signed up to.
You cannot buy them because they are dumping them??????
It's the thing that happens when a foreign exporter sells goods in your country below their production cost (or far below what they're charging domestic customers). It's done to fuck up the foreign markets for those goods, or, in China's case, as a relief valve for malinvestment.
China drastically overfunds EV production. There's a whole weird story where provinces apparently competed to get slices of the EV production business, which resulted in a large number of competing firms, producing far more vehicles than the Chinese domestic market could consume.
This isn't just a US thing. Europe tariffs the heck out of these cars.
If they're being dumped there is an oversupply, and people are spoilt for choice. The market is awash with the dumped product.
Not being able to buy them is the exact reverse of that.
Your claim is that the reason people cannot buy the vehicles ISN'T because they are being dumped BUT because the government SAYS they are being dumped and has therefore actively prevented them from being sold.
The supposition is that it's an accurate claim by the governments - there are reports that the Chinese manufacturers are being restricted by their government and that there has been a period of over production, but how much of that is true and how much is propaganda is very difficult to actually ascertain.
How do we make a system everyone is to abide by when the US can just rewrite the rules when it suits? Order collapses when a huge country behaves this way.
The US chose their market (arms). The Chinese chose consumer goods. Go figure.
Not saying this is uniformly bad, because without the law the number of businesses with the ability to manufacture this stuff would trend toward zero, but it is a form of subsidy.
That's before we discuss the advantage Boeing has in the commercial market thanks to DoD contracts.
Your link shows that the US exports the same as the next 20 countries added together. That suggests some market dominance.
I also suspect these numbers do not include "military aid" - where weapons and munitions are "given" by the US to Ukraine wherever[1]. (But they may, I don't know.)
I agree though that the primary benefit of this is not "sales". And even if it was these aren't consumer goods. So it's not easily compared to China's approach. I'm not suggesting it's a terribly good subsidy. But it's still a subsidy.
[1] there are a lot of political benefits to be gained by having bases in foreign countries, or by port visits by US ships. Unfortunately most of those benefits have been eroded in the last 2 years. The gutting of USAid (which saved basically nothing), leaving the WHO, the tarrif nonsense, bombing Iran - all have destroyed a benevolent reputation 75 years in the making.
It winner takes all econony is literally based on destroying the competition as such.
Anything the federal government pumps money into tends not to do as well.
Stop crying already. US subsidizes a boatload of things.
I generally agree with your point about value extraction vs. re-investment.
Equities are literally investments in business. Equity is a line in the balance sheet for every corporation.
Same for BYD vs Tesla and every other car. It is easy to win in the "free market" when you give away your product.
Same for Uber and Lyft for many years — subsidized by VCs until they gained massive scale, effectively killed all the other competition, and now the prices have gone up when they have a lock on the market, a large moat, and the VCs want a return. In my area, what was a $30 ride to the airport a few years ago, far cheaper than any airport service, is now $89.
The entire concept of a "free market" is idealized to the point of fiction.
China's covert military training of Russian forces last year was personally approved by President Vladimir Putin's defence minister and directly involved at least four Russian and Chinese generals, according to two European officials and documents seen by Reuters.
https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/russia-ap...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Support_for_Russia_in_the_Russ...
One of EUs biggest trading partners wants Ukraine to lose to Russia...
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3316875/ch...
Iran helps with Shaeed Drones as known
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HESA_Shahed_136#Geran-2
With Chinese parts btw.
North Korea is in too with 10k troops at least and massive ammo. Traded for food and wheat from Ukraine.
What would the attack vector be? I’m not saying there isn’t any, I don’t know much about aerospace and this sounds interesting.
The cameras. But quite how, I don’t know.
Rather than actually getting real on China and their abuse of the postal system, it’s all about tarrifs on penguins.
Biden did far more with the chips act, but rather than building on that trunk failed to enact any meaningful change. And of course make billions in the side from bribery.
> GoPros are used all over in aerospace
They hardly have time to compete, busy as they are with foot-shooting practice.
Stuff like this: https://sensofusion.com/dronefactory/
Edit - should add, early in the war Ukraine was crowd-sourcing drone parts from citizens with 3D printers at home. This likely grew from that.
You can rapid manufacture moulds too, cnc alu is good for 1K shots easily.
If and when AI commiditizes professional services, it would be good to have modern industry to fall back on. With 3d printing the gap isnt insurmountable yet.
However, our country is run by lawyers, not engineers, so I dont have too much hope. At least a lot of our billionaires started out as engineers...
So if we're getting spied on anyway, why not buy a better product?
The U.K. has just nationalised a steel plant which had been bought by China to stop it from being destroyed, and of course the economic right wing hate this as steel is far cheaper to import.
If that scam of a man wins the next election, it’ll be quite the show.
There are estimates as high as 10% of GDP, though 6-8% seem more agreed upon.
Trump reached 55% and became president. Twice.
Pot. Kettle.
But unlike the USA, at least Britons realized Brexit was a mistake. And that Johnson was corrupt and a liar.
I am a citizen of both the UK and USA.
It is astonishing to me that Trump could be voted back in after attempting a coup.
For one, I had a GoPro whose sensor broke after about 20 minutes of recorded. I ended up getting 3 different replacements, all of which also broke. In the end I just forgot about it when my home burnt down in a wildfire. I got an Insta360 with better picture quality that's also been more reliable for a similar cost.
And I would have loved to buy a Prusa printer but I got a Bambu P1S combo for $600, an equivalent Prusa plus the $300 shipping to Canada would have been ~$2500 CAD. For making trinkets for my 3 year old son plus the few random other things I'd make it's not worth it to pay 4x the money.
Maybe it'll forever be this way due to the differences in cost of living but I do feel as though there's a million barriers to entry to building a business in North America, at least a business that's not fully online.
Neither one of those are equivalent to a P1S. They’re 2 tiers above it. Equivalent Bambu printers sell for about the same price.
I have printers from both companies. There are tradeoffs for each, but Prusa isn’t 4x more for an equivalent printer.
I did get a particularly good deal on the P1S combo apparently, the price on their website already higher than what I paid and it's significantly less in Canada than the US with exchange rate. Are they exactly equivalent, dunno, but both are the cheapest Core XY models with enclosure + colour changer that either sell.
Prusa is also cheaper in the US and EU than Canada.
Both are enclosed and both do 4 colors in a variety of materials. Both are the cheapest version of that that each company offers.
IMO it's more like comparing a Honda to a Mercedes. I'm sure the Mercedes is better but a Honda gets you places all the same.
No. Not even close
China wants its place at the table.
With Erope and USA
People seem to think a developed China is a threat. But they are not staying in rural poverty for ever for our sake. That is not a threat.
They are not trying to "deindustrialise" anybody, just finding a place amongst equals
Wasn't that the thing like ~30 years ago? All the western companies pushing manufacturing into China for increased profit?
Capitalism and the west gave all that power away :), you deindustrialised yourselves.
In what way exactly? The camera will magically communicate to the mothership?