upvote

points

by MoltenMan20 hours ago |
comments
upvoteby nkozyra20 hours ago|
next
[-]
True, but RFK (and other politicians and celebrities) have been active in pushing some form of anti-vax ideology for a decade plus, in some cases back to the 1970s.

It's been a growing movement, not something that kicked off when RFK assumed the HHS role.

reply
upvoteby MoltenMan10 hours ago|
parent|
next
[-]
I agree. But to be clear the original comment / context is about MAGA / Trump. I think responding 'No, you're wrong! RFK is the reason' to a thread about Trump and then retreating to RFK's activities over the last 20 years is arguing in bad faith.

The entire reason I made my original comment is because it's important to recognize that this is not a Trump thing, and getting rid of Trump / MAGA will not suddenly convince people that vaccines are good.

reply
upvoteby nkozyra9 hours ago|
parent|
[-]
It's not _solely_ a Trump thing, but he gave RFK an enormous platform and has himself been espousing demonstrably untrue things about vaccines and vaccination schedules. This very week, in fact. [1]

If you don't see this as an enormous amplification, I don't think you're operating in good faith.

1. https://www.nytimes.com/2026/08/10/well/trump-vaccines-fact-...

reply
upvoteby freediddy19 hours ago|
parent|
prev|
[-]
Pre-Trump, anti-vaxxers were notorious left-wing granola types. Lots of anti-vaxxers were white liberals living in Marin and NorCal and sending their children to private schools like Waldorf.

Only after Trump did people start lumping them in with right wing.

reply
upvoteby wredcoll18 hours ago|
parent|
next
[-]
Trump gave them official government support and promoted them.
reply
upvoteby secretsatan18 hours ago|
parent|
prev|
next
[-]
Well that’s just not true, anti vax has always been a theme of the far right, infowars and i’m sure others have a long history of it.

The left wing libs types are far more recent, and i would lump them more in with the wellness brigade.

reply
upvoteby freediddy17 hours ago|
parent|
[-]
You are completely wrong. It's always been a far left concept until COVID.

This is from Mother Jones, a very liberal web site.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/06/the-anti-vax-mo...

reply
upvoteby secretsatan13 hours ago|
parent|
[-]
Here’s an earlier article from another leftist site https://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/apr/25/mmr-scare-an...
reply
upvoteby riffraff18 hours ago|
parent|
prev|
[-]
> Pre-Trump, anti-vaxxers were notorious left-wing granola types

so, exactly RFK's type :)

reply
upvoteby AnotherGoodName20 hours ago|
prev|
next
[-]
While It’s fair to point out that RFK is hopping on a train that’s already got momentum, your first comment reads as if it’s not caused by falling vaccination rates (your second comment clarified further).

Also why not blame politicians doing the wrong thing?

reply
upvoteby 20 hours ago|
parent|
next
[-]
deleted
reply
upvoteby MoltenMan20 hours ago|
parent|
prev|
[-]
Perhaps I should've been clearer. And yes they aren't helping.

And yes, we should blame them for the things they do. T But the comment I was responding to was acting as if MAGA was the reason for measles outbreaks, which is false. I'm an incredibly strong believer in the truth. An example of why I think this is an important separation: imagine you tried to fix the measles outbreak and miraculously got every single American to hate Trump and got Trump out of office. The problem would still not be fixed! People would still be dying of measles! The effort would have been almost completely wasted!

reply
upvoteby stickfigure20 hours ago|
parent|
[-]
A major campaign by RFK's replacement could absolutely make a significant difference stopping the spread of measles. That's the whole point of the (proven extremely effective!) vaccine.
reply
upvoteby MoltenMan19 hours ago|
parent|
[-]
Do you believe this? I think it might help a little, but so we're on the same page RFK has only been in charge for 2 years. Why wasn't the previous secretary of health doing this? The measles outbreaks may be relatively new but we've had the vaccination data to see it coming for over a decade.

My personal belief is that there a lot of people who believe stupid things out there (and it's all only amplified by the news and social media), and for anti vaxxers especially I don't think an authority figure saying 'You have to get the measles vaccine!' is going to help much, unfortunate as it is. :(

reply
upvoteby stickfigure18 hours ago|
parent|
next
[-]
Inaction (and really, let's be clear - making it worse) is RFK's choice.

We managed to cut the smoking rate pretty dramatically, including in about half over the last decade. Public policy is not ineffective, we just need competent people to wield it.

reply
upvoteby MoltenMan10 hours ago|
parent|
[-]
I think we live in a different age man. Media nowadays is completely different. Example: I have literally never had cable tv in my house. I've probably watched cable TV around 10 times total, all in a hotel room growing up. My media is all online, uncontrolled and (relatively) decentralized. Contrast that with 60 years ago and hopefully you see the difference.

Also smoking smells and has other negative externalities, which doesn't hurt.

reply
upvoteby nemomarx18 hours ago|
parent|
prev|
[-]
I don't think it would be logistically that hard to criminalize the parents or take away their kids in those cases. It would have a lot of other downsides but it would probably reduce the rate pretty directly.
reply
upvoteby MoltenMan10 hours ago|
parent|
next
[-]
Ok if you want to do this then sure there is an easy solution. I think there are other problems with this though (for example no way this is flying even with the majority of people who are not anti-vax).
reply
upvoteby stickfigure18 hours ago|
parent|
prev|
next
[-]
I'll bet it would be enough just to make sure that the vaccine waiver signature box is positioned directly below some glossy full color pictures of emaciated, rash covered dead children.
reply
upvoteby horacemorace17 hours ago|
parent|
prev|
[-]
Excepting the turbo fascism, that is. People must be able feel agency while parenting or they can’t parent well.
reply
upvoteby cindyllm17 hours ago|
parent|
[-]
[dead]
reply
upvoteby renegade-otter20 hours ago|
prev|
[-]
COVID and anti-vaxxing explosion happened 6 years ago.
reply
upvoteby MoltenMan20 hours ago|
parent|
[-]
Look at the source I linked! Only 20% of cases are under 5!
reply
upvoteby nkozyra19 hours ago|
parent|
next
[-]
Unlike a lot of pathogenic diseases, measles requires an extraordinarily high amount of herd immunity (upwards of 95%), so this isn't a particularly telling data point on its own.
reply
upvoteby mrguyorama19 hours ago|
parent|
prev|
[-]
RFK Jr has been pushing anti-vaccine bullshit for decades. He was already taking defensive stances on his activism (Oh, I'm not anti-vaccine, I'm just providing nonsense arguments and clout for anti-vaccine stances) back in 2015.

Kennedy was already pushing bullshit during the UK Measles vaccine fraud/scare, back in 2005. He was doing this along with a few other celebrities.

reply
upvoteby MoltenMan10 hours ago|
parent|
next
[-]
I've responded to a few people on this but the comment I was responding to was literally about the last 6 years! The context of this entire thread is about MAGA / Trump! I agree that RFK is hurting and has been for a long time, but that is not what this argument is about!
reply
upvoteby renegade-otter18 hours ago|
parent|
prev|
[-]
In fact, he is blamed for spreading vaccination hesitancy in Samoa and the deaths of multiple children there as the result even before COVID: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/newly-obtained-emails-un...
reply