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> Finally, we will continue to progressively open-source more of the Mojo language, as well as components in MAX that we have built with it. Our commitment remains unchanged – we will open source the Mojo compiler and toolchain in 2026.
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It's categorically uninteresting until and unless that happens. Weird to release 1.0 without it. What are they waiting for?
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> Weird to release 1.0 without it. What are they waiting for?

Hmm, I've been under the impression that at one point they said it'd be 100% FOSS by the time 1.0 hits, but maybe I misunderstand/misremember the details. But I remember they'd said it'd be FOSS in connection with 1.0, seems weird to do it this way instead of waiting until it's all FOSS then cut 1.0.

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They have some event scheduled for next week too.
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From listening to Chris Lattner in interviews my guess it’s learning from when Swift became open source. The beta versions of Swift had massive language changes in how value types worked like with Array. Mojo is trying to get this language design locked down first, which is easier to do behind closed doors.

A compiler promising source stability is a different commitment than the compiler’s code being ready for outside contributors. Which is also different to having ABI stability, which took until 5.0 for Swift to achieve (I think Mojo does not have ABI stability as a goal as it doesn’t have to link to OS frameworks).

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Massive language changes are easier to do without users. Whether the source code is visible to external people or not is completely irrelevant. I have a few programming language implementations on my GitHub and let me tell you, making manor breaking cha he's to those are easy as pie when I'm the only user.

If Mojo's goal was to make evolution easier, they would have a limited closed beta like what Jai does. But they're not doing that; they make the toolchain available to everyone, they just did this marketing push around releasing version 1.0 of their language. They're making it harder to make breaking changes by seeking users among the general public.

I have no idea why you started talking about outside contributors though, nobody's arguing that they should accept outside contributions. You do t have to do that. It's a completely orthogonal issue to what we're talking about, which is releasing the code under a FOSS license.

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That doesn't really make sense, as being open source really has nothing to do with whether the language has an open evolution process. And if they've already declared 1.0, then they've already decided they're stable, so the original point doesn't apply any more.

I feel like they're going to remain closed until Qualcomm is convinced they can't make any money from it being so.

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People to tune in to the conference, probably.
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This exactly. Doesn't scream confidence that its still closed upon release.
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Why? The creators have a strong open source background and it's work to properly open source.
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Because they promised 1.0 would be 100% FOSS. That has proven to be a lie.
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I think they are waiting for a wild success in adoption, and if that doesn't happen they can use the IP to pivot to something else without giving the core away to anyone for free/as open-source.
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A lot of people beg to differ. And it's their decision, not yours on when to open source. They have their reasons even if they aren't explaining them to you.
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also what license will they be going for?
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The point is that Mojo compiles to MLIR for programming on heterogenous compute and GPU so something like Pydantic isn't really comparable here.

The alternatives would be stuff like CUDA

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The value has already been materialized. They were acquired by Qualcomm for $3.9 billion.
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Wow, so Lattner became a billionaire. Pays to be in compilers.
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For once. A former colleague once quipped: The only way to make decent money in the business of language runtimes is to get a job at a big company that depends on it.
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Yeah, feels kind of odd to phrase it like that when he's already created more than one world famous compiler before this one.
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TBF, he has done more than his fair share of time working in BigTech.
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The value has been speculated on. It doesn't mean the value has materialized.
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That’s insane, for a language that seems to be Temu-Python.

OTOH Python itself is the world’s most popular programming language, yet has only recently had the money to support more than a single full-time developer.

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It almost feels like they were paying more in the hopes of owning the next LLVM or Swift based on the name on the tin rather than basing the price on the product itself.
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What else are you going to write CUDA kernels in that will be better than Mojo?

This doesn't compete with Python.

Like if someone wrote a competitor to VHDL that looked like TEMU Python... Python would not be its competitor, VHDL would.

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Julia is actually quite nice for this. If you prefer a python-like approach consider Triton from openai, numba (https://numba.pydata.org/) or CuTe DSL from Nvidia.
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Python tooling from NVidia itself, which generate the same PTX as CUDA C++.
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Julia
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lol no
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it's legitimately among the best languages for writing GPU kernels
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C and C++ were closed source for quite some time, they still are in places like commercial embedded OSes and console dev kits, even when they happen to be GCC and clang forks nowadays.

Clang actually has replaced most GCC forks exactly because vendors can keep the fork closed source.

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Sure but at those times C and C++ had no immediate replacement, and if you were doing embedded C/C++ was your only option. The same cannot be said for Mojo.
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There were competitors. Pascal and assembly, most obviously.

It was just a different culture. There was no expectation that everything should be free.

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In that regard yes, personally I think Mojo has lost its opportunity, but not due being commercial.

AMD/NVIDIA/Intel now having first class support for Python DSLs or GPU JITs for their APIs, and Julia as well.

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The C compiler source came with the AT&T UNIX tape ... it wasn't open source because FOSS didn't exist at the time and it was under a proprietary license, but it was not "closed source". Parts of MOJO, OTOH, are closed source because the source has not been released (yet ... it apparently will be later this month).
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That one yes, the ones sold by all UNIX clone vendors definitely not.

In fact, GCC was largely ignored until Sun decided to split SunOS into two SKUs.

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And then you drag the goalposts out of the country ...

As I said, C was not "closed source", it was distributed with source under a proprietary license. And "all the UNIX clone vendors" didn't exist for years after the UNIX tape was first released. And they weren't "clones", they were enhanced supported versions of the AT&T system. I worked for nearly a decade for the first of those commercial UNIX vendors, ISC ... the other prominent ones were SCO and Wollongong. (Sun came along later, based on BSD UNIX, developed for the VAX and of course derived from AT&T UNIX ... none of these were "clones" ... the first of those was Minix, and then GNU/Linux). We all distributed UNIX with the AT&T C compiler. Eventually ISC wrote their own C compiler for IBM's AIX project because IBM always had special requirements ... I don't know whether we distributed the source or not.

But the point is that this was nothing like the situation with Mojo, which currently has not released the compiler source ... which is nothing like what people on this page are writing, because it will be open source SOON, probably coincident with the conference later this month.

I won't respond further about this.

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Pydantic is mainly about making Python strongly typed.

Mojo addresses the actual need to write code in other languages, such as C++ or CUDA, for low level and hardware specific work.

But I wonder if it has already missed the AI hype cycle, when a lot of low level code is being written. I'm not sure how the developer ecosystem will react now.

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Their website has a banner suggesting news about open sourcing of the compiler at some Aug 18 convention.
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They are going to open source it eventually
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