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I have been yelling about the thinktank "truth laundering" industry for years now.

They were instrumental in the whole "Uyghur genocide" thing where the only proof was Adrien Zenz suggesting there would be a possible future decline in population growth and called it a "cultural genocide".

The US State department has been running things like "Radio Free Asia" as state propaganda mills for decades. This has broken out into an industry of insiders getting board seats on various think tanks and churning out essentially policy desires as "studies". These studies are then used as citations for actual news articles to launder the policy desires into something that seems like a reliable source. Then people say "Look! this is really happening!" while 100s of articles are written citing the same untrustworthy sources, laundered through dozens of thinktanks funded by the DoD and state dept.

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Both of their legal teams utilized bots to drive online discussions[1][2]

Neither of these sources support this claim as none of them include any discussion on Amber Heard('s legal team) using bots?

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Indeed, seeing how slanted online discussion was, I suspect one side had many more bots, and I'm not sure if the other side had any.
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> Indeed, seeing how slanted online discussion was, I suspect one side had many more bots, and I'm not sure if the other side had any.

I think your bias is showing. From what I recall, both sides employed the exact same tactics, and we often saw blatantly inorganic discussions popping up in random subreddits on how $(SIDE_A) was the real villain and $(SIDE_B) only had supports because they were paid bots driven by their PR firm.

Things reached a point where I'm sure the same template was used by each counterpart.

On a bigger picture, I'm not sure why anyone still goes to places like reddit and believes anything showing up in the mainpage is still organic.

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Is there any writing outside of your recollection that says the Heard side was using bots? Afaik all reporting suggested it was one sided, and not her side
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this has been happening since the dawn of information-communication systems basically. because ever since, people have had the ability to listen in, copy, learn from etc. - so there's always been incentive to spread disinformation for some parties.

brand defence, nation-state influence operations.

There are many different flavors of the same thing, trying to mislead competitors or enemies. Or to dupe consumers ofc... Since the tech is more and more available, now also 12 year olds can run insanely large influence campaigns, to boost their streaming profiles or other somewhat benign things, but obviously modelled after what larger players have been doing forever.

The first transatlantic commercial transatlantic phoneline (TAT-1) was immediately tapped on both sides by UK/US... before that it went over radio, which was simply intercepted.

Because of that nature of the coms system being easily listened in on, just like they do/did with the lil mirror-beam-splitters at GCHQ etc.., its been natural effect to then provide disinformation over those channels. perhaps even use those channels exclusively for disinformation, and have a secure channel to do _actual_ coms.

So as you can imagine there has been many decades now of practice in why and how to share disinformation effectively to undermine other peoples work or processes.

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Why are you being downvoting for sharing this relevant truth, complete with sources?
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All threads that have... certain keywords... are like this. Talk about meta. Looks like I'm now in the positive (+5) after being in the negative just a moment ago.

Anyways, I got really interested in this topic around mid 2010s because of some really interesting reporting by Codastory[0] covering Russian "troll factories" especially used to influence opinion in eastern Ukraine, but also in many other circumstances. In Houston in 2016, Russian troll accounts planned both an ANTI Muslim rally AND a counterprotest to that rally all on Facebook.[1] Hundreds of real human beings showed up!

Russia got a ton of attention for their use of troll farms but the truth is that the US and certain allies have actually been using stuff like this for far longer and, imo, with much more success. In fact, Coda Story itself is funded by the NED which is a massive pillar of global US, uh, "soft power".

[0] https://www.codastory.com/

[1] https://www.npr.org/2017/11/01/561427876/how-russia-used-fac...

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For me the main difference is if the activity is clandestine and meant to deceive/hide the origin. Everybody tries to influence things their way. Doing it covertly is a hostile act. That does not mean that I would not condone hostile acts against my/our enemies but it is something take into account. And regarding your Russian examples, it showed for how long they have seen the west as enemies and conducted hostile acts.
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They view certain components of "The West" as their enemy - indeed, the very organizations which conduct the same operations against the Russian people.
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Not a lot since WW2.
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Well, you could also look at the history and cold war and NATO and so on, but sure, the Orcs are just having inferiority complexes!
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Russia has been a corrupt, inefficient and jealous country for at least the last 300 years or so. NATO was not necessary to continue that great tradition.
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Is there a specific point you want to make or are you just vagueposting?
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Tankie. Possibly mechanized (AI) tankie, these days.
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or, you know, you could provide some arguments to back what you're trying to say. But I guess we shouldn't expect that much from a 5 day old account named smalllangmodel.
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Sure, but you have to admit that the reputation of Russians abroad is not THAT bad. They're seen as skilled at engineering and well-educated. I think Russia's future might be sunnier than many here let on - as long as they stop fighting their neighbours. By contrast, I think that the future for Israel is far grimmer. It's funny though that most of my relatives are in the intersection of these two groups: Russian Israelis - and I think my disgust towards Zionism is rooted partly in hearing them.
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Because cognitive biases are one of the hardest things to even acknowledge, let alone suppress. All the media out there has such a strong bubble effect, because people hate being challenged and love to stay in their comfy echo chambers. Remember labubu? Bao buns certainly do not.

There have been so many bot armies exposed over the years that one would think every narrative being pushed should be considered to be backed by bots. Some state-level actors even operate their narrative-pushing campaigns openly, yet people still happily deny their entire existence.

HN is very much not an exception to this rule. It's very hard to accept that maybe some thoughts you have were actually installed.

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> people still

Maybe a few are just “people” (i.e. the same people who normally post in the community.)

But in most cases I’d suspect any such botting campaign brings along with it a few human agitprop agents embedded onto each target platform, well-positioned to deny and discredit anyone pushing back on the narrative the bot farm is spreading.

(Sometimes this is pretty obvious — a lot of accounts coming out of the woodwork to deny Chinese bot farms have a conspicuous “English as learned as a second language in Beijing, to a competent but not fluent level” writing style that does not often otherwise crop up in other discussions in those same communities. But other times it can be far more subtle, making use of operatives hired from within the community’s own majority-culture rather than relying on foreign nationals playing the part of same.)

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A Chinese and Russian troll farm employs people from French-speaking Africa for their French-language operations.

There are many Ivorians and Senegalese promoting the CCP’s ‘Community of common destiny’ on Reddit, for example.

Edit: Community of common destiny for mankind/‘Community of Nations’

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There’s bots that automatically downvotes certain topics on HN. I post at times that often coincide with the middle of the night in North America, and I get 3–5 downvotes within the next 5 minutes.

Talking about a country that sets up fake think tanks is a good way of triggering them.

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These 2 sources say nothing about Heard using bots, only Depp.
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You're not supposed to acknowledge that think-tanks are sort of endemically propaganda outlets. You're supposed to think it's special this time.
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