upvote
"""far from being a perfect state""" ??? it's been captured by a bloodthirsty clique, and all the intelligent & wise people in it are leaving
reply
It has been captured by bloodthirsty clique is true. But so does the US and every other nation around Israel.

Just check the facts about each and every government in the middle east.

reply
what about not whatabouting facts? we are not talking about the miss universe contest here. keep your identity small, it will help you think more clearly.
reply
It’s not “whataboutism”, it’s micro geo political trends. Know the difference.
reply
I mean the bloodthirsty clique that has captured the US is called Israel.
reply
I think the US has been like this since its founding. The genocide it supports is revealing not only the truth behind Israel’s existence but also the true nature of US foreign (and domestic) policy.
reply
I don't think that's true either. I get the feeling it's more of a "flood the zone" Steve Bannon style "disrupt the other continents" geostrategic drunken-master kung fu.
reply
> Qatar lies

Netanyahu said that "Qatar is not an enemy country". Is he wrong about that? https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2025-08-14/ty-article/.p...

reply
Its a messy situation. Qatar hosted HAMAS's bot farms and leadership until 2024 (or 2025, I don't remember) when Israel destroyed it with literal bombs dropped by a F-35I. That happened quite near to both a Qatari military base and a US military base. That doesn't happen unless the Qatari military/government gave approval. I'm no expert in Qatari politics but I would guess that there are significant support for HAMAS in the population. The politicians probably wanted HAMAS leadership and IW operations out of their country, but they also wanted plausible deniability with their own population. So given all of that and assuming there are things happening we don't understand, is Qatar an enemy of Israel? Publicly the answer is no. But its probably also dependent on their respective interests and situationally independent.
reply
I don’t support Netanyahu, and so does close to 50% of Israelis.

Qatar is spreading fake information and is funding Hamas as well as anti-Israel classes in major US colleges.

If you don’t trust Netanyahu then you should disregard the link you shared as well and that just strengthens my point.

reply
> Qatar is spreading fake information and is funding Hamas as well as anti-Israel classes in major US colleges.

This is absolutely true but people don't want to hear about this. Qatar is the main propagator of many student bodies in the US. This is how you get students saying "gloabalize intifada", "death to the USA”, occupying buildings, etc.

Qatar has a long, well funded strategy for influence in the west which is pretty much their only leverage.

In addition they are the main funders of Hamas, alongside hosting the Hamas leaders in fancy hotels in Doha for many, many years.

reply
The amount of selective outrage directed at Jews, Israel and "Zionists" is proof to me that the fake information campaigns are super duper effective and I'd say dangerously effective. I have friends who are generally psychotically outraged with Israelis and some how just pretend all Israelis are scum / should be "disposed of" or something, and they should "go back to Europe".

I see almost zero concern for people of Sudan, North Korea, Russia, Ukraine, Uighurs, Detained US immigrants etc and I'd say zero anger towards these people's oppressors, as if they are just "good guys misunderstood".

Of course I believe all people should be safe, free from harm etc, but I just cannot some how get totally outraged about one specific cause and neglect all the rest. The only reason I could imagine myself doing this is if I'd been "red pilled" by some social media campaigns, which I suspect more people than I'd like to admit are.

reply
I think what pisses people off about Israel and the Zionist movement is the mixture of entitlement and monstrosity.
reply
Russia and China benefit directly from this distraction.

You can see it here on HN whenever, for example, someone mentioned censorship by Chinese models, there will be responses trying to change the topic to Gaza, with the misinformation that Western models refuse to discuss that issue.

reply
> The amount of selective outrage directed at Jews, Israel and "Zionists" is proof to me that the fake information campaigns are super duper effective and I'd say dangerously effective. I have friends who are generally psychotically outraged with Israelis and some how just pretend all Israelis are scum / should be "disposed of" or something, and they should "go back to Europe".

It is so effective, because they make such an easy target of themselves all the time. Anyone following the news and thinking a bit and maybe also keeping track of their crimes, could easily believe any claims about any additional crimes Israel is engaging in. Their own behavior makes it very easy to believe they have done even more terrible crimes.

Escalation of conflicts into wars with any neighbor country, that isn't on a tree by the count of 3. Assassinations of disliked individuals, regardless of in which country they reside, just like Russia did in the UK. Inhumane treatment of prisoners. Incredible discrimination of their neighbors. Supporting violent and armed mobs, to rob people of their homes. Illegal expansion of territory.

I mean, with that sort of track record, there is not much we wouldn't believe they are capable of. And then you have completely delusional people online, who go maximalist in their attitude, trying to defend all of that and trying to lay claim to all the territory that Israel would love to conquer. That's basically the Zionists. I don't see how they are not loath-worthy, and I also haven't yet seen something like a "mild, non-maximalist Zionist", who would convince me of "not all Zionists are bad".

> I see almost zero concern for people of Sudan, North Korea, Russia, Ukraine, Uighurs, Detained US immigrants etc and I'd say zero anger towards these people's oppressors, as if they are just "good guys misunderstood".

That's because in some of those cases there is little influence that "the West" has. I do think, that you are grouping quite uneven situations there though.

Sudan: Inner country turmoil, civil war and militias. What exactly do you expect others to do? March in?

North Korea: Eh, well, a crazy dictatorship, armed with nuclear weapons and ballistic missiles. At least they stay contained in their own country mostly, when they are not sending meat to Russia.

Russia: It is being dealt with by Ukraine and its supporters. They are f'ed for the coming decades and maybe will even crumble under the looming economic crisis. All because their dictator couldn't help but invade a neighbor and doubles down infinitely.

Ukraine: But the West _does_ do something about it? I mean, did you follow the news the last couple of years? Ukraine's supporters are everywhere!

Uighurs: What exactly _is_ the situation? Have you visited Xinjiang?

US immigrants: How are they comparable with all the other situations you have mentioned?

> but I just cannot some how get totally outraged about one specific cause and neglect all the rest.

Then you have an eternity of feeling bad ahead of you. We have so many crisis and bad situations and crimes against humanity ongoing on this planet, that you will never be not outraged. I don't think we can "demand" outrage from others. A human only can show they care about so much. Gotta pick your battles.

reply
Yeah but the Haredi will outbreed the rational liberals of Israel and vote towards extremism. If there was a Muslim country with as much power as Israel attacking other countries, it would equally be right to call it out.
reply
It’s mostly the national settlers that pull it toward extremism at its current state, not Haredim.

But it’s also October 7 that made the average joe even more extreme in their opinions.

reply
I mean, they did bomb them. you don't do that to friends.

I doubt there are any true friends in the middle east, just temporary allies of convinence.

reply
>they did bomb them. you don't do that to friends

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident

Does this mean that USA and Israel aren't friends?

reply
>>When Obama used social networks, he was called a genius, but when it’s someone you don’t like

Obama used social networks to spread a milquetoast 'yes we can' message, not to justify an ongoing genocide. How is that even a comparison. Israel is closer to Triumph des Willens than it is to promoting the Affordable Care Act, you do realize that right?

It's not 'far from being a perfect state', it's waging old testament wars of extermination on its neighbors and towns

reply
It has been attacked by a Palestinian militia terrorist group. Is it waging old testament wars? No, but it is retaliating at a rate the western world refuses to accept because the western world has different, much much milder kind of problems.
reply
You're not wrong that there's an element of self-defense. What makes it harder to accept is the lack of effort or willingness to de-escalate the conflict.
reply
That kind of euphemism is just a joke in light of the racist and fascist rhetoric by Israeli pundits and politicians, how they call even babies terrorists, while at the same time making shit up about beheaded babies and whatnot. Even just the sheer cruelty and stupidity IDF soldiers put on display proudly, voluntarily, would wholly refute it. Israelis making their joke videos about Palestinians by itself would suffice. Only a deeply sick, deeply evil and deeply stupid society can create such artifacts. You may come to a different conclusions, but you may not gloss over all the input into that judgement.
reply
I think you’ve been brainwashed so I’m out. Peace.
reply
deleted
reply
Its always easier to attack the person then the arguments being made. It also shows your true colours.
reply
[dead]
reply