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Apps still need to go through Apple bureaucracy and they still take their cut. They are still free to ban any of those apps without any specific reason
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As opposed to what? What’s the alternative you propose?
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not the OP, but I assume: Apps don't need to go through Apple and Apple doesn't get to take a cut?
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I don’t buy apps anyway. Want to keep me as a client? Make your website functional. Fuck your apps. With all this b2c invoice bullshit in the EU now everyone wants me to install their app. Fuck you, send me an email!
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Couldn't agree more tbh. I have an app each for like 8 restaurants I want to be able to order ahead from. All those apps are 200-600MB each, their performance is dogshit and they're obviously all built with web technologies anyway. Just let me do all the same shit on a website, kill the app, and save the download and the Apple bullshit.
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Uninstall them.
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Just download the app from the website and install it
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Hahahaha, are you fucking serious. As an Apple customer, that’s exactly what I don’t want.
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This is the weirdest comment to me.

“I don’t want to be able to do what I want to do.”

“Please stop me. I’m about to install a program by a small independent developer that does something I want. Stop me, and first charge me 15%, and them $100. Oh, and install it in my old phone??? No! Please stop me and force me to upgrade!!”

“Oh my phone is too old!! Please force me to but another one!!”

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> “I don’t want to be able to do what I want to do.”

No. I already do what I want to do. I don’t use apps. Regardless if it comes from the App Store, or any other website on the internet. How do you arrive at your interpretation.

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You would still be free to use the appstore, I'm sure if it's as great as Apple says, it will have no problem
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But the mechanics to work around it, and potentially slip something onto my phone, are already in there. No, thanks. The problem with this wholeEU bullshit is that the pro-consumer and pro-security do not always go hand in hand. And relevant dept lawyers don’t always communicate sufficiently.
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Okay Tim Cook.

If the App Store is such a customer-friendly shield, then why are there millions of scam apps in the App Store?

To combat software threats, sandboxing and fine-grained permissions (which Apple basically pioneered in the consumer space!) is the answer. App Review can't catch all malicious actors. When a vulnerability exists in the sandbox, the exploit can easily be slipped past App Review, with a feature flag holding it until the scammer is ready to attack.

App Review, Notarization, etc. isn't for us. It's for Apple. It's the control that allows them to extract the money. Simple as that. Without the control, only small indie developers would list on the App Store because it's (A) shitty in quality, (B) shitty in financial terms, and (C) shitty at keeping people safe from scams.

If you want proof of that, look at the tumbleweeds in the Mac App Store, where it's not mandatory and anyone can distribute an app in a zip file, and where notarization hasn't (yet) been weaponized to censor apps[1] for reasons having nothing to do with platform security.

No one wants to use the MAS, so they don't, and Apple doesn't get to take 30% of all revenue for every app distributed. You can see why they are fighting tooth and nail to not have the much more important iOS platform turned into that.

[1] https://mjtsai.com/blog/2024/06/14/utm-blocked-outside-app-s...

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I’m not Tim Cook. You need to send an email to him, apparently he reads them. Anyway, I still prefer that instead of having a risk accidentally installing some shit scam app from literally anywhere on the internet. Is it so difficult to understand the difference? At least I can hold Apple liable when I buy a scam app on their App Store. What you propose is basically shareware of 1990s. Zero security.

Don’t get me even started on the hypocrisy of the people wanting what you propose. So, the reason you want to build an app for iOS is that there are many of us. There are many of us because of App Store, mainly, as an end user. Pick one. You are proposing breaking the only platform making the iPhone an interesting product for a computer illiterate.

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> having a risk accidentally installing some shit scam app from literally anywhere on the internet

Don't install random shit scam apps then. It's easy. Just don't do it. Use the App Store. Just because you trust them doesn't mean the entire userbase should all be forced to trust Apple and only Apple.

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I just told you in this thread that I don’t. Explain that to your mother! Or your paps, or your little kid.

I have my popcorn ready for the new wave of installing malware apps through some click jacking scams.

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It's such a bad argument, the 'but grandma will install malware' excuse. By that logic we also need to fully lock down the Mac, Windows, and Linux the same way because Granny might get scammed there, too. Apple must approve all software.

Again, Apple already allows grannies to be scammed with apps right on the App Store. Apps which are advertised by web popups that try to stop you from going Back, and throw up "You're INFECTED!" warnings and alerts. Then they route you to the App Store to get the scammy apps, with often weekly subscriptions. Apple routinely lets these listings stay up for a long time. I can see an app right now called "Storage Cleaner_ Phone Cleanup" It charges victims $9.99 a month to pretend to do several things that the OS already includes as features. And another one called "Phone Guard: Secure Cleaner" - same basic deal, $6.99 a week.

The sandboxing should be what keeps us safe from "malware" -- these apps don't have root. They can't access your phone's contacts without explicit permission, nor take control of the radios, nor replace your system apps.

Apple can't or won't keep people safe on the App Store. But they still use this line about the poor confused grannies and toddlers as an excuse of why we have to let them keep 100% control of every iPhone in the world, in a way that just happens to earn them tens of billions of dollars every year.

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The alternative is the explicit legislation in the Digital Rights Act:

Article 5(4):

> “The gatekeeper shall allow business users, free of charge, to communicate and promote offers, including under different conditions, to end users acquired via its core platform service or through other channels, and to conclude contracts with those end users, regardless of whether, for that purpose, they use the core platform services of the gatekeeper.”

This means the 15% commission on purchases made after linking out is explicitly forbidden by the legislation. Article 5(4) says gatekeepers must let developers, *free of charge*, communicate and promote alternative offers *and conclude contracts* with those users. More importantly, in a June 2025 Apple compliance workshop, the Commission explicitly said Apple had been ordered to ensure that both promotion and “the conclusion of contracts following steering” are free of charge. It said Apple could receive only limited remuneration for the initial acquisition of a customer, and prohibited other fees linked to customer acquisition. Yet Apple now says that an App Store app linking to the web will pay Apple 15% of the resulting transaction, or 10% for certain programmes.

Article 6(4):

> “The gatekeeper shall allow and technically enable the installation and effective use of third-party software applications or software application stores using, or interoperating with, its operating system and allow those software applications or software application stores to be accessed by means other than the relevant core platform services of that gatekeeper. The gatekeeper shall, where applicable, not prevent the downloaded third-party software applications or software application stores from prompting end users to decide whether they want to set that downloaded software application or software application store as their default. The gatekeeper shall technically enable end users who decide to set that downloaded software application or software application store as their default to carry out that change easily.

> The gatekeeper shall not be prevented from taking, to the extent that they are strictly necessary and proportionate, measures to ensure that third-party software applications or software application stores do not endanger the integrity of the hardware or operating system provided by the gatekeeper, provided that such measures are duly justified by the gatekeeper.

> Furthermore, the gatekeeper shall not be prevented from applying, to the extent that they are strictly necessary and proportionate, measures and settings other than default settings, enabling end users to effectively protect security in relation to third-party software applications or software application stores, provided that such measures and settings other than default settings are duly justified by the gatekeeper.”

On the 5% “Core Technology Commission” on apps distributed outside the App Store, the Commission previously issued preliminary findings that Apple violated Article 6(4) specifically because its Core Technology Fee disincentivised alternative distribution.

And then we have the eligibility restrictions for web distribution. Apple still requires developers to satisfy criteria such as a financial-stability threshold, being publicly traded, having established venture funding, having undergone a financial audit, or falling within certain institutional categories. The Commission’s previous findings criticised Apple’s “overly strict eligibility requirements” for alternative distribution. Article 6(4) allows Apple to impose measures protecting hardware/OS integrity *only where they are strictly necessary and proportionate.* How the fuck is it strictly necessary and proportionate to protect iOS that developers have venture funding? OBVIOUSLY, these terms are a form of malicious compliance, intended to deter anyone from using this distribution method.

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> They don't care, frankly. In fact it makes it simpler for them.

No it absolutely doesn't. Search is so broken that you can't even tell people "Search for Hacker News on the App Store" and have them find your app called "Hacker News" -- search ads get top billing now, so it may be a competitor called "Hacker News Today" infested with unskippable ads and a weekly $14.99 in-app purchase. Not that their organic search results themselves are good either.

So, smart companies send customers to a web URL, and then link to their App Store product page directly. The App Store provides zero value to anyone but Apple (by design).

Customers also don't open the App Store today to browse for new and interesting apps, the way Apple seems to pretend. Customers find out about apps from social media ads and install them directly.

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Every time you try to inform consumers how much Apple charges, Apple bans the app though.

So even Apple thinks informing consumers on how the appstore works is a threat

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How is it relevant to a consumer? If I pay for an app I am interested about how much I pay, not about any fees Apple charges the publisher of the app. Same as when I buy something in a shop...
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How is it Apple's business to raise that question? They don't own the device, they don't own my app, and they don't employ me or the customer.
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So you’re opposed to more transparency?
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You know the trump tariffs. I guess you are cool with them too.
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