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Korg did it right - budget off-the-shelf processor, most of the money spent on the UI, wildly optimistic prices, no nostalgic ties.

The expensive part of a modern synth isn't the DSP board, it's the industrial design and tooling needed to build the rest of the hardware.

The CZ series was workable, but there really aren't many passionate nostalgic buyers waiting to drop a few hundred - minimum - on an expensive reissue.

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This is where Behringer absolutely shine - about a decade ago they established a fully automated mega-factory in Malaysia designed around Siemens’ Xcelerator portfolio, PLM/MES software, and Digital Twin technology.

Korg 2600 - ~ €1000 Behringer 2600 - €300

CZ Series doesn't have much cachet simply because phase distortion synthesis was the 'we have FM Synthesis at home' cheap alternative to 4 OP FM Synthesis in the 80s. About the only USP they have in that arena is the fact they're responsible for the 'Reese Bass' sound - the 'Wilhelm Scream' of Techno if you will.

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Malaysia? I don't think that intended land use went forward, check again?

They refurbed their Chinese on OTOH.

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I don't think I buy that argument (that there aren't enough people interested in it).

It's not quite in the ball park of something like the DX 7 or several of the better known analog synths, which have nearly all seen re-issues, mini-versions, software emulations, etc., often several. Damned near every Roland synth from that era has seen a re-issue and official plugin. Yamaha has been more measured in their re-issue plays, but the DX did get a reface DX, along with the CS, CP and YC. FM synthesis has been wildly successful in nostalgia synths as well as novel takes on the idea (e.g. the Elektron FM groove box) and Korg's Opsix (I have two of them, the first gen small one and the big expensive one made in Japan), and Yamaha still ships FM synthesis engines in their high end workstations. And, there's at least four plugins that emulate the CZ (I'm working on a fifth to be released in another month or two).

I don't think all that would exist without some demand. I have a soft spot for early digital synths, and I think a lot of other folks do, too. I don't like to buy from Behringer, but it's the only hardware option out there right now aside from the real thing (I own a real CZ 101, but I wouldn't want to take it out of the studio).

AudioPilz (Bad Gear) even made a video demanding it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kb8nMZE-bb0

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Hell you can often even find the Korg Volca FM for under 100 bucks and it’s a patch compatible DX7 clone.

I have a Casio CZ-5000, the 61 key version with sequencer. It’s well made but given its age I’m not sure I’d want to take that to a gig either.

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> I don't think I buy that argument (that there aren't enough people interested in it).

That you can buy them on ebay all day long for less than most cheap synths costs new argues against it being viable.

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The prices are pretty similar to Yamaha DX series synths on eBay right now (starting at about $300 and going on up to $700 for working specimens, depending on model and condition).
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Not really. XZ1000 $300-600. DX7 $700-1000.
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According to what I can dig up, the original MSRP of the DX7 was $1995. The original MSRP of the Casio CZ 101 was $395. So, by my reckoning, the CZ has a higher collector value than the DX7 based on relative price change over the years.

Edit: But also, the CZ was generally more comparable to lower-end DX synths, like the DX27 or DX9. It was a budget synth in its day, while the DX7 was the pinnacle of digital synthesis for at least a year or two after release, everyone had to have one.

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The core of the vintage remake market is "Always wanted this, still can only afford a clone" which is where Behringer lives.

There's also a "Always wanted this, can finally afford it now that I'm rich" niche for the high-end remakes from Korg and occasionally Moog etc.

There isn't a huge "Bought this forty years ago because I couldn't afford anything better and would quite like a modern remake" segment.

Casio do still make pianos and Casiotone keys which include samples and some CZ and VZ series sounds. (I don't know if they're sampled or DSP.)

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>Korg did it right - budget off-the-shelf processor, most of the money spent on the UI, wildly optimistic prices, no nostalgic ties.

Korg does put out "nostalgic" remakes of analog synths just as well: MS-20 (complete with patch board), Arp 2600, as well as digital versions like the Korg multi/poly virtual analog.

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Agreed. My knowledge/experience with synths is limited but between DSPs that're as available as ketchup and Kleenex for the past few decades and an LLM there's not much to rolling one's one. A watch on the other hand is higher LOE
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There's not much to rolling one's own FM synth, either, and there are dozens of successful commercial products built on it.
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> Casio has been leaving a lot of money on the table in terms of nostalgia products

Casio has been quite successful at not abusing trust in their brand by releasing lower-quality outsourced replicas like HP did with their calculators. Not that HP had much farther to fall but it’s nice to see a corporation that’s not incompetent!

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They don't have far to fall in the synth world. Their current keyboard line has no synthesizers to speak of. But, also, they still have a keyboard line and relationships with music dealers, so presumably they wouldn't need to outsource the return of the CZ.
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Trying not to leave any money on the table is exactly the approach that reliably kills off nostalgia income streams.

Picking off some low hanging fruit while demonstrating provable restraint can result in a huge money stream that goes on and on. But when the mindset "it's good, but it can be better!" becomes dominant (e.g. through market dynamics, being publicly traded means that ownership perpetually shifts to those who think that income sources could be squeezed just a little harder, or much harder, actually), it quickly turns sour. And when it flips from beloved to "why throw money at those greedy $expletive,plural" it flips hard, and forever.

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G-Shocks could be so much better, and it has been this way for at least a decade.
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"So much better" means "with added smartwatch crap"?

The whole value of them is they are simple, minimally changed over time (you can depend on getting the same model in a decade), functional, with no/bare minimum smartwatch crappery, essentially endless battery, and no planned obselecense.

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A lot of Japanese companies leave piles on the table. One often unnoticed reality of Japanese imports and exports, at least in modern days, is that Japan as a whole has total double standards on those, requiring over the top perfection for imports but exports are almost on take it or leave it basis. Even Nintendo products are at barely acceptable levels if the standards for imports were applied to e.g. en-US editions. It's a miracle that Japanese products have substantial sales volumes and good reputations at all. It's quite unlike Chinese engineering of today.
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You make it sound like their exports are subpar. They're excellent.
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> basically a Raspberry Pi-like SoC

Not just Pi-like - the Wavestate is using an actual Raspberry Pi CM3 module! https://www.raspberrypi.com/news/electronic-music-icon-korg-...

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Hmm I wonder what else Casio watches have been a big part of over the past 30 years that may have put a hamper on such things, I wouldn't look into it
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Good point. They’re probably repurposing an F-91W line.
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The (relatively new) Casiotone CT-S1000V and CT-S500 have CZ sounds included along with fun voice synthesis technology, and are recommended as a good cheap keyboard on some forums.
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It's a really good question why Casio didn't continue making synths after the 80s. It's possible that the entire CZ-line was intended to be a one-off response to Yamaha's breakaway success with the DX7. After the CZ-line, it looks like Casio tried to keep up with Yamaha for a few years, but exited the market after Yamaha launched the SY-line. From what I understand, the CZ-series were great sellers then, but even with all of the nostalgia they'd never move large numbers now.

For what it's worth, Yamaha aren't particularly nostalgic about their cult-classic synths either. I guess that from their perspective, the DX7 and CZ-101 were already obsolete within a few short years. By 1990 the sound had already become quite dated, and technology had moved on. Now that they've become popular again as a cult-classic, the margin just isn't there anymore because of the market share of software, or cheap independent FM/PD synths.

Shameless plug, in case anyone is interested, I've done some work reverse-engineering some of these synths:

- https://github.com/ajxs/casio_cz101_rom_disassembly

- https://ajxs.me/blog/uCOM-87_The_Strangest_Architecture_Youv...

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Awesome. When I was researching the CZ 101 (still am, actually), I spent some time reading the MAME implementation, including the NEC upd933 chip emulation. I was going to say I'm surprised I didn't find your docs, but it looks like they were all published late last year which is precisely when I was doing my research (I used the holiday to work on some projects I'd been stewing on in the back of my mind, and a phase distortion plugin was one of them).

I don't know why I find that era of synth so enjoyable and interesting, but I do. I love every FM synth, but that side of things feels pretty well covered by existing tools. Korg makes the OpSix (and I have two), Yamaha has the reface DX and I think their workstations still ship an AFM engine, and there are at least a half dozen plugins that are mostly quite accurate, and a handful of other hardware options.

Phase distortion just feels more neglected, so that's the one I've been spending time on. I have an excellent engine running, which is more accurate than the Arturia CZ V engine (at least compared to my actual CZ 101, maybe they were comparing against another model, but the MAME engine is also like the real CZ and not like Arturia, so I am inclined to say Arturia got sloppy), but I'm going pretty slow on the UI. Making a nice plugin UI for a synth that didn't have a nice UI is a challenge. You can't just copy the original UI if you want it to be fun to use.

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Completely right about the synths, Casio has been missing out. Their new Sampler looks really nice, and has been a surprise in the music world.
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That sampler looks so fun and I want to buy it but I already have a PO33 and SP404 MK2. So I really don't need it. Probably keep an eye out on reverb in the next year or so
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They've also dipped their toes into guitar toys with the Dimension Shifter. They do seem to be kind of paying attention to the music market again, after decades away from it. So, I'll keep hoping for a really good CZ re-issue.
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Hopefully because they’re focusing on having relevance in the future. It’s sad as a gen Xer to see Japanese electronics companies fading away.
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They ate American manufacturing's lunch and now China is eating theirs. The circle of life, or something. But, yeah, I have fond feelings for a lot of Japanese brands, not just electronics (my favorite car since childhood is a Nissan Z, speaking of Japanese companies on the ropes).
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the watches are a high end fast fashion brand in japan. it seems to be very lucrative
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Not just Japan, they're widely popular globally as daily drivers, but also as "fashion" watches, with Gen Z too.
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I have a couple of Oceanus brand watches that I got in Japan. They are fairly un-cheap.

However, in Japan, their G-Shock brand (kind of lower cost, in the US), can get even more expensive than Oceanus. Some of them look like Pip-Boys (Because this is HN, I need to mention that this is a deliberate exaggeration).

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Now I'm curious, do you have some examples?
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Look up gshocks around $300 on chrono24 etc. then go look up the new MSRP

There are collectible models that sell used higher than they were new, but for the most part they’re much cheaper

Then there are lines like MR-G. hand hammered metal cases made out of premium materials.

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It's entirely possible that the more expensive "G-Shocks" were Mr G. I remember seeing wording about titanium cases, etc., but most of it was in Japanese, so the only thing that jumped out at me, were the price tags.
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Not offhand. I got the watches in that big Akihabura store, about 20 years ago, and they had a shitton of G-Shocks, as well as Oceanus. I saw several 6-digit prices.

Many of the folks I worked with, could afford good watches, and wore G-Shocks. They were quite proud of them.

I suspect you’ll see them on the Japanese Casio site.

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80s casio watches are the rage with kids in the US, too
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you can have cz samples in the upcoming Casio SXC-1 ! toy sampler is the new toy synthesizer
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I have a real CZ 101. And, I've implemented a synth engine that emulates it quite closely.

But, I still want a modern Casio CZ. I just think it'd be neat.

The sampler is cool, though.

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