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Hungary and Slovakia are largest importers of Russian natural gas in Europe. France is third as I remember.
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Yet somehow "preemptive nuclear strike is a valid defense" France is a bit different from Hungary and Slovakia in their stance on Russia.

So maybe natural gas imports aren't the thing that determine the outcome.

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Geopolitical decisions aren't made by countries, they are made by individual people.

Sometimes those people are a plurality that organically endorses that decision and votes some representative in. Sometimes those people are a plurality that has been brainwashed by compromised media to do it. Sometimes those people are just a small ruling elite that get voted in by people who didn't think very hard about those particular geopolitical decisions and just want, I don't know, their political and cultural enemies brutalized and $1.99 gas.

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Older people in these countries have good memories of that time, employment and housing were basically a given, healthcare and public transportation were solved, etc. They're very easy to manipulate, promise them a 13th month of pension and they'll vote for you.

I don't think you understand how bad globalization fucked up these countries, people live with their parents until they're 30+, young people can't find decent jobs, etc.

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South Korea took themselves out of military dictatorships and authoritarians. What’s the problem.
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No, globalization gave them as a nation a chance and they mostly didn't do any serious effort to use that. Its 1000 little decisions here and that that led to some post-soviet-sphere countries to thrive, while others stumble and generally gain prosperity mostly from being dragged into it via EU membership. Ie specifically Slovakia is / used to be a big car factory for whole EU due to low salaries. Not really something to build long term success on, ie if Ukraine would join EU all of those foreign factories would move even further east.

Sure, we can blame politicians which were mostly bad to worse and stole everything that was previously state-owned (meaning everything). But folks kept voting for them in similar fashion you describe so this is the result, its trivial to 'buy' votes with relatively low budget. I mean current PM has very tight and visible connections to Italian 'Ndrangheta mafia, he or people around him did a contract murder of reporter looking into that. He didn't ever faced jail and is back being PM like there is no tomorrow. There is only so much blame one can point outwards, you can't be dumb / do dumb shit and expect long term marvels of prosperity on Switzerland's level.

Lived in both of those countries, and they look exactly as they should given overall population efforts towards hard work, honesty, rule of law and so on. If US would be a nation of slackers and thieves it would also look very differently to how it is.

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> and they mostly didn't do any serious effort to use that.

Those countries who were fresh from behind the iron curtain were really dealt a bad hand. They had lived in a "protective bubble", albeit a very unsustainable one and suddenly were thrown in the ocean surrounded by sharks looking for an easy meal. Almost every one of those people found themselves desperate but "inexperienced" and unprepared for the new world, every politician was absolutely blown away by the fortune they could make, and every other country jumped on the opportunity to make money. Like shooting fish in a barrel.

For every politician who took a bribe, someone who already had money paid it. That money didn't come from inside those poor countries. This leveraging of poorer countries never stopped. That's how some countries get a better deal than others when the EU adopted the Euro, for example. But it's never been so bad as back then because it's incredibly rare that entire countries find themselves exiting a time capsule, just ready to be exploited by people who already know how the game is played.

This reminds me of two things. The people who always think others are poor because they're lazy, and the people with perfect hindsight and no pressure judging that Captain Sully could have landed the plane back on the runway instead of the Hudson.

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> people live with their parents until they're 30+, young people can't find decent jobs, etc.

A lot of people in the US feel the same way right now.

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>precisely the countries that should know better, since they were the principal recipients the "love and friendship" from Russia

Goes to show that 1984-style conditioning really does work, decades later.

Remarkably, it can even be passed through generations, as it gets ingrained into the mentality of how parents raise children: "The nail that sticks out gets hammered down. Don't rock the boat."

Which was a survival trait in those times.

The current incarnation of Russian propaganda is different, but is even more virally poisonous:

> I'm not political. Politics is dirty. There's nothing you can change anyway. "Two sides" is an illusion. Everybody is lying and has an ulterior motive. Only naive fools believe otherwise, only naive fools ever trust. You can't know anything for sure. What you think is true is actually a lie. The only thing that's real is who you're with. That's the only truth. That's the only thing to look for in anything anyone says, that's the only thing one really says. That's what makes something true or false. The words uttered don't matter at all.

You might have seen this kind of mentality spouted by your friends on either side of the political spectrum.

Remarkably, whatever the political persuasion of people who have it is, the end result is the likes of Orban/Fico coming to power.

Sadly, this thing not only spreads, it also sticks.

If you know of an antidote, please tell me what it is.

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The Slovaks ultimately got federalization of Czechoslovakia from the crisis (1969), which both distracted them and made their memories less negative.

As far as Hungary goes, I asked my friend who studied Hungarian history. He explained to me that while the Soviet invasion was very traumatic, the subsequent Kádár "goulash socialism" was a lot more lenient on the people than all the other Soviet Bloc regimes, and that the Hungarians made an incorrectly confident conclusion that losing a small war to the Russians is not catastrophic.

Of course, this is NOT the experience of basically anyone else who happened to be in a similar situation. A potential puppet regime of Russia in Ukraine wouldn't look like Kádárs by any means, it would rather look like the Kadyrovian microstate in Chechnya, minus the Islam of course.

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My brother visited some of these countries. He said most people there are oblivious to what happened to their countries. They simply don't care. It also didn't help that everyone he met (agricultural sector) was a day-drinker.

That's why they're doomed to repeat it. Again and again.

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exactly. they need a foreigner that visits for a weekend to tell them what is happening in their own country. those stupid day-drinking eastern europeans... the arrogance of you and your brother is incredible
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It's almost like people who are simply trying to survive don't have the time, energy, or space to worry about international, or even national affairs. Weird.
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They’re not simply trying to survive. They’re not that poor.
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A lot of Eastern European countries have oligarchs who largely made their fortunes with help from the Russians. In Czechia one such example is the prime minister Andrej Babiš, who was a bureaucrat in a state owned business who then sold it to himself in the 90s (with the help of some "Swiss" money) and became a billionaire. He's consistently been as pro-Russia as he thinks he can get away with (the positive is that Czechs hate Russians a lot).

Also in these countries there's a lot of old people who have never been able to adapt to living in a free, capitalist society, so for them, there's some nostalgia for communism.

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And maybe they mistake current Russia for a communist country? It has every single ingredient of Stalin's Russia except the pretense of socialism or communism.
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oh no, they see very clearly, to the West it's a (more or less) rule-based order and to the East it's a might-makes-right one, so they having acquired their power and money in a not entirely legal way, naturally are drawn to the east.

edit: ah you mean the old people? not really, no, it's just pure propaganda, it doesn't have to make sense.

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https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna7632057

https://www.newsweek.com/putin-says-communism-comes-bible-co...

It doesn't matter what Russia actually is. They play both sides with their propaganda. Old people who thought positively about communism still support Russia.

Fico and Babiš for example were both communist party members and both pro-Russia politicians today.

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Are there any other wars that are not of aggression? What do you gain by parroting the legalese speak? Implying that it is extra bad and extra illegal war? Not your run of the mill PG-13 war? This one is X-rated kids.

Everyone knows who the attacker is - just some people root for Russia for their own reasons. Usually tied to the internal politics of their countries - like hating for unrelated reasons the political actors from their states that happen to support Ukraine.

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> Are there any other wars that are not of aggression?

There are concepts like wars of necessity or just wars (e.g. of liberation), but that depends on how cynical you're feeling.

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> wars of necessity

Propaganda always tries to convince people that the current war is the just war and everyone else is wrong.

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No, it just means their governments are controlled by pro-russian people, or are simply Russian puppets installed years ago.
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