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> Federated platforms like Mastodon and Bluesky are "culturally" closed

What does the even mean if you can host your own

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Hosting your own doesn't really matter if it just means you're on a social network with one user.
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Lots of people run single-user instances.
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Getting them federated properly was pretty tough a while ago (since any spammer could just set one up, there had to be a bar to clear), did that get fixed?
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I follow some people who have moved to single-user instances after the instance they were on shut down/etc, and I haven't seen anyone mention any trouble getting federated.
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I'm not sure if it ever was that hard but if you follow a bunch of people the network effects will kick in eventually, you can also add relays to pull in posts from other servers if you're impatient. A fresh instance can take some time before the known network starts filling in, especially if you don't know who to follow (or have anyone following you), but fedi is a series of tubes: it only pushes and pulls stuff from places it knows. I didn't have problems federating outgoing messages to my friends' instances when I started, but I wouldn't be surprised if some Mastodon servers use some stupid anti-spam measure that keeps low peer count servers away.
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What does it even mean, period? MAGA losers are free to establish a community on Bluesky, the only difference between that and Twitter is that Bluesky isn't built to optimize for ragebait and culture war fighting. But they can still socialize among themselves on Bluesky even if no one else wants anything to do with them.
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the problem here is, that a large large group of people do want something "to do with them" (and "them" not just being "maga losers"), but that for NORMAL users that sign up and use bluesky, there are others who choose that they must not socialize with them.

normal people dont understand how they can join specific communities or instances or whatever it is on the specific platform, they want something like "twitter" and then thats where they are, they dont want "some weird twitter instance thats not the main one"

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[flagged]
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Nothing, fedi is extremely anarchic by design. If you don't like a server you can move to a different one, or start your own. The big Mastodon servers put in a great deal of effort to police what their users can see and interact with (see FediBlock), but it's impossible to shut certain people or groups out of the network entirely. It's a double-edged sword, but it's a net good for the kind of network it was intended to be, which is a hacker's network; it wasn't designed for normies.
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Maybe they're referring to defederation? It's quite common on Mastodon as I understand it, due to disagreements on things like moderation between server operators.
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> IMO we all need to start vibe coding PHP bulletin boards again. 'RETVRN' etc.

The most recent release of phpbb was 2 months ago

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And it’s still having critical security vulns after 26 years
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Can’t get a CVE if every anonymously generated slop forum is different
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They still work just fine, people need to use them instead of the drugs they get force fed by mega corps.
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If we reflect on the debate from years ago about whether to nationalize Twitter, all the downsides we were warned about have come true. They censor / promote whoever the state wants anyways, the CEOs was literally in the cabinet for a time, but now they also have to enshittify and degrade the experience for the benefit of an also-ran AI lab.
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All of the downsides you listed started with Jack Dorsey, and were significantly improved once Musk took over. X/Twitter still has its issues, though.

I’d tell you to check out the “Twitter Files”, but it seems Wikipedia has been completely compromised. And I’m hesitant to recommend you read about it on Grokipedia (you’ll assume there is major bias), but it does seem to be the most accurate retelling of the scandal that I can find online. Here are both though: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twitter_Files https://grokipedia.com/page/Twitter_Files Censorship-wise… Twitter was worse than Reddit at its peak (before being bought).

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You can read the talk page yourself. Wikipedia's editors are annoying and impossible to work with, but their obsessions are weighted towards the truth. And while some editors have acted in bad faith for smaller articles; articles like that are generally treated with as much good faith as possible.
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> significantly improved once Musk took over

At a certain point it's just words; what makes those meaningful? Musk bans and limits distribution for people he dislikes or who criticize him, intentionally directs hate mobs, promotes hate and disinformation, ...

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A lot of kinds of speech became allowed that weren't before. Old Twitter had banned several politicians including US Congress members for their views, sometimes for things like misgendering someone. Also banned NY Post.
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Instead of rehearsing the same old arguments like a ritual, we know the heart of the issue:

(A) Freedom of speech is the highest value (that's applicable here), to simplify a bunch of stuff.

(B) Limiting antisocial behavior is valid 1) in any community, 2) especially when the behavior limits other people's freedom (e.g., by shouting them down or through intimidation or hostility), and 3) especially in the forum of a business that provides forums - they want their customers to enjoy the experience. There's some validity to a business with such widespread control of the public space respecting freedoms more broadly than they might privately like.

(C) Defining (B) in a way that respects (A) is the heart of the issue.

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I think the issues with (C) are realtively easy to resolve:

* I) Don't tolerate intolerance, to apply Popper (to my understanding). The social contract is I tolerate you and you tolerate me; that's freedom. If someone violates the contract, the deal is off and they're out. They're a parasite on the relationships. As long as people respect that, they can say what they want. That's how a free society works, and works very well.

* II) Relative power matters: Intolerance + Power = Danger; Intolerance + Powerlessness = Rudeness. For example, a room contains 20 Romulans and 1 Klingon: The Klingon expressing hatred of Romulans is obnoxious but can be mostly ignored (maybe don't stand too close), while a Romulan expressing hatred of Klingons is a serious threat to the Klingon. In a discussion, it's a good way to silence the Klingon. Obviously, you can substitute any groups you want in that room, and I think it matters who is powerful in the wider world - for example, the billionaire can go elsewhere and be safe, while the homeless person has little safety, little room to express themself, anywhere.

IMHO the biggest problem is people who seek disruption - trolls - being parasites on good faith. At (C) they see a weak spot in the social fabric and they press on it and tear at it, trying to maintain deniability about what they are doing. By now everyone knows it when they see it; the great majority can be removed with ease.

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> Old Twitter had banned several politicians including US Congress members for their views, sometimes for things like misgendering someone.

I didn't pay much attention to the issue - it was hard to find genuine (non-disingenous) information about it - so I don't know.

Generally I don't think being a politician gives you more rights than other people. You can easily have political debate without intolerance - without advocating against others' freedom. Do you have an example of the misgendering? A mistake is one thing; persistently doing it is harassment, an aggressive intolerance of someone's gender.

But the same goes for everyone - people can say, 'I think I'm either female or male, not both', and they shouldn't be harassed or silenced any more than people who say 'I think I'm neither female nor male; I'm somewhere on a continuum.'

There are always grey areas in everything in the universe, but I don't think these are hard.

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https://ballotpedia.org/Elected_officials_suspended_or_banne...

The example I remembered was Jim Banks suspended for saying "The title of first female four-star officer gets taken by a man" in reference to a transgender officer.

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Thanks for the link. Here's the site's full Jim Banks story; it's not incidental but aggressive intolerance.

On October 23, 2021, Twitter suspended Rep. Jim Banks' (R-Ind.) official account for fourteen days after he made two posts referring to Admiral Rachel Levine, a transgender woman and the United States' first openly transgender four-star officer, as a man. A Twitter spokesman said one of the tweets violated the company's hateful conduct policy, which prohibits "targeted misgendering or deadnaming of transgender individuals."[30] After Banks deleted the tweet, Twitter restored his account on Nov. 5.[31]

Banks tweeted in response from his personal account, saying: "Twitter has suspended my official account for posting a statement of FACT. I won’t back down. I’ll be posting on my personal account for the time being … Big Tech must be held accountable!"[32]

Other stories there show I should add another criteria - safety. Dangerous advice ('eat rat poison') obviously should be removed, but of course there are grey areas of wrong but somewhat dangerous ('drinking a few glasses of wine a day helps arthritis'), of information of unknown accuracy.

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What does a site stealing content has to do with open web?
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> "free speech" platforms like X are "technically" closed.

Musk boots off and/or limits distribution of people he disagrees with. I can't fathom how you think that's 'free speech' - it's the opposite.

> Federated platforms like Mastodon and Bluesky are "culturally" closed

I've heard that - what is your experience? Downvotes and exclusion? Are there more 'open' servers?

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> I've heard that - what is your experience? Downvotes and exclusion? Are there more 'open' servers?

Fediverse has plenty of servers which are "free speech" adjacent, which most Mastodon servers close off since its easier for them to police what their users can see than let them do it themselves. The vast majority of them do not run the Mastodon software, and feel far more "wild west" with all the shitposters. But if you want to talk with actual hackers and are into that sort of thing, it's fun times.

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Which servers are these fun ones? I would like to explore a bit.
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Here is a page listing block lists, where you can find plenty of "fun" servers: https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/discussions/18143

They'll include reasons for the block, which you should pay attention to.

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https://fba.ryona.agency/ lets you browse instance block lists, sort by most defederated, who defederates the most, etc. There used to be FediBlock which maintained a centralized blocklist, but it doesn't exist anymore (gee, I wonder how something like that would end up eating itself?).

As far as reasoning goes, I think you can grasp how people would try and wield a tool like blocklists. A lot of blocks are merited, while some arent. I've had several blocks put on my instance from servers that I never even interacted with, for reasons that seemingly appear out of thin air.

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I'm not against blocklists, I'm very much for them, and I use them on my own instance, and a browser plugin for HN.
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Yeah, I do too; but it's just per-user. There are a couple instances that are so worthless that I'd rather throw all their posts in the trash than deal with their users individually, but I don't think that logic should be applied in general, which it unfortunately is.

Most instances of trolling can be dealt with by a single block, or reaching out to the admin, but basically no one puts in the effort to reach out if someone's causing problems (Hell, one guy even reported my whole site to my host without so much as a word in my direction, just for a couple inflammatory posts someone made).

And I don't think it's right to police what people are able to see and interact with if I'm running an instance with other people (if it were a single-user instance, that'd be different).

But hey, it's your server. You should do what you want with it. I just wanna do what I want with mine.

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https://fedilist.com/ is a good instance browsing/monitoring tool maintained by the guy who runs fsebugoutzone.org, one of the more prominent and "fun" servers. He's a good dude.

You can browse by software, whether its open registration or not, allows tor, etc. You can glean statistics off of certain instances, which is really useful if you run one yourself. Most of the instances on the other side of fedi run the Pleroma software.

Have fun!

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