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All but one of my employers have used either Github or Gitlab, and at every one of them there were a litany of complaints about whichever one we were using. It's kind of surprising to me that someone might not immediately recognize that there's certainly potential there for something better suited to what companies are actually looking for. Obviously there's no guarantee of success, and maybe the problem is too hard to solve, but that's pretty much how any company starts out!
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I think it’s partly about how many steps back you take. Take another step back and you might see a new option that will in ten years be added to your list of options lots of people use and have plenty of complaints about.

I’m not saying not to try or that there’s no value in turning the wheel once more. But I used to be excited about these kinds of things and now I’m not because I’ve seen the cycle a few times now.

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I’m very excited to see the great work ERSC has/will do. When thinking about where Git lags today, I’ve come up with three categories: UX features and custom data not natively understood by the Git CLI, a stock git-http-backend that doesn’t scale well to moderate monorepo size in server compute / storage, and a wire protocol that isn’t as flexible as it could be for special requests.

But there are so many hooks into the Git workflow today, and I’m struggling to find a “user story” that would not be met by custom Git tooling. UX could be added to Git objects à la Gerrit with custom CLIs, custom Gitoxide ODB and (eventually) ref storage backends can help the server scale, and things like promisor remotes and partial clones can keep things smaller on the client side.

I’m curious what ERSC is able to share publicly about where the scaling fails with the Git specification? Is it the wire format, or the relative speed of upstreaming new things to Git? Or is the side-channel approach for storing rich data in Git objects insufficient in some way?

P.S. I wrote a blog post[1] about this a bit ago. I’m sure I’m missing something. Since I wrote it, I’ve wondered if the lack of deferred conflicts in-tree would be a scaling limiter.

[1] https://jdc.pub/posts/git-jj

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Thanks!

Yes, it's important to realize that git is multiple things: the on-disk repo format, the CLI, and the wire protocol. Each has their own challenges, just like any project, but they can be tackled independently. But at the end of the day, there just are fundamental limits to the way that git does things that make total sense in the context Linus developed git for, but just do not in other ones. Some of those are performance related, but some of those are things like how the kernel is an open source project, and so per-directory ACLs are something that git wouldn't ever bother supporting, but are valuable for companies. We'll be talking about these things in the future, so I'm just going to be hand-wavy about it right now. But we do think that git is a really great system that has served us all well for 20 years, but just like how git displaced systems before it due to significantly re-thinking the details, for some users, making meaningful improvements over git will also require a similar significant re-think. That's just the way of technological development.

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As someone trying to compete in this space: will ERSC make the change/commit their unit of code review? It's one of the pet peeves I have with GitHub et al.
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Yes. Stacked diffs are table stakes.
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Well, stacking is one thing, doing it well is another (see github) ;)

But that's good to hear.

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Are you guys hiring? (Software Engineer that writes in Rust.)
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We are not actively hiring at the moment, but will be in the future for sure.
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Post to the HN Who’s Hiring threads when you do :D
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so most of my guesses about ersc are true, except it is only for enterprise? or do individuals also get access eventually?
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It's not so much that we will prevent individuals from using the product, we are just focusing feature development on the needs of companies and teams. Startups are hard, and you have to focus, and so that's where we are focusing first.
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Will you prevent individuals from using the product by requiring a sales call for onboarding? (aka: decisions that have nothing to do with individuals at all, but merely rule them out by intrinsically not being something they can achieve)
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As we initially roll out we will be doing that, yes. The reason is that our initial offering is enterprise shaped, and so won't have a self-service onboarding. Eventually we will not require the white gloves, but you have to start somewhere.
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I think it's unlikely that individuals will need their product, unless you happen to have a 100 million line monorepo. (At least based on what it sounds like they're targeting.)

Normal Git/JJ is fine for most people, and most open source projects. It's just when you get to the scale of commercial software companies (100+ employees) you run into the classic monorepo/submodule problem.

Monorepos are currently the best solution - they make testing tractable, you can do cross-project changes, Git's support for them isn't buggy as hell. But they have obvious downsides - performance is the big one, but also integration with open source projects, permission control, etc.

So there's this big problem space that really only matters to companies where as far as I know there are currently no good open source or even commercial solutions. The only people that have (maybe) solved it are the mega-corps like Facebook and Google who have made their own private solutions. I don't know exactly what ERSC are going to offer but it's surely going to be in that space and also probably not going to be super relevant to private individuals.

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[flagged]
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This sounds glib, but I mean it sincerely: we will make money by charging money to use the product. A free tier on source control hosting is just not economically tenable nowadays. I have built a career on open source, and so that bums me out, but we have a business to run.

Our moat is that we are not trying to take git and scale it up, we are building a more scalable system from the beginning. And we will have features that nobody else has because of it.

It's always the case that businesses have competitors, that's just capitalism. We're not worried about that.

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The enterprise sounds accurate.

You mention performance issues with Git, but there are performance issues with this blog post.

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If the worst thing you can say about a git hosting provider is that the performance of their blog is worse than the performance of their git servers, I think they're probably doing an okay job.
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While this is true, we do care about performance tremendously, and the animation not having good performance cuts against that, so I think it's a very fair criticism. Paying attention to details matters.
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What is your browser/OS combo? I am assuming it's the animation, we tested it thoroughly but there can always be bugs. Thank you for bringing it up!
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Windows, Chrome, fans spin, recommend ai review
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Thanks, I'm a Windows user and use Chrome myself, and on my machine it works great, but it's a pretty beefy box. I mentioned this downthread to someone else, but I've filed a bug internally and we'll make sure that it's better optimized. Thank you for the report, it's truly helpful.
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Firefox on Linux
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