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I actually think a goal of the current crop of OpenAI posts is expressely to reset the spectrum by normalizing the concept of RSI as something normal and safe to pursue.

The message is running through all of them. It's a mix of marketing and pacifying the intelligentia.

It's timed this way because the term is not yet well known outside the safety debate circles, so they get to frame it now.

Instead of something to fear, it will be accepted as the next step. In approximately two days the groupie crowd will write LinkedIn posts about how Sam is winning because they have the better RSI, and this will become the new standard wisdom.

In a month an AI expert will try to sell you a webinar on how to enable "RSI" in your org and your inbox will ask you if your team is doing the "RSI" yet.

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> It's timed this way because the term is not yet well known

The basic concept has been here since llama3, in the open models. Likely earlier in closed labs. You use the previous gen models to curate and prepare data for the next gen. Now with the added benefit of actual arch/algo improvements (also public since gemini 2.5 gaining 1% efficiency on training next gen). This has been known for at least 2 years, in the open.

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Yep, it’s exactly this
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I've been RSI'ing for 6 months.
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You’re not the target audience. OpenAI communication is for the broader public, decision makers, journalists, their cultists, etc
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Indeed, many programmers might pattern match to repetitive stress injury and think of their brushes with carpal tunnel syndrome. :)
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Yeah, I kept looking for the first place it was defined in the article and... nothing
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They must have picked that habit up from Claude...
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Same. Defining acronyms should become a habit when writing.
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RSI started when humans discovered tool use.

I mean one could argue that RSI always begins in any physical environment.

The book "What is intelligence?" by Blaise Aguera is great

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Are you sure that was not iterative improvement?
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Iteration and recursion are famously equivalent
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Everyone in AI used to know this.
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But you get more funding when you call it Recursive Self Improvement. Even better if you call it RSI so it doesn't evoke pesky skynet scenarios outside of AI safety circles.
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I've had (computer-related) rsi off and on for the last few years too, do not recommend
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Both agents and hunans get rsi, it’s just moving them in opposite directions.
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Using tools to build tools is recursive.
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It's not recursive when it's done iteratively, or are you imagining GPT Astra designing GPT Galactia, which starts designing GPT Oh-My-God-ica before it has finished being created itself?
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That sounds more iterative than recursive.

Recursion requires feeding the output back into the input, so creating version 4 requires results from version 3. You cannot recur in parallel.

Iteration does not. You can iterate in parallel.

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You can search in parallel, but a depth N search can only become a depth N+1 search after the depth N is done (i.e. sequentially).

In any case the name RSI has stuck - the idea doesn't change or make any more sense by giving it a different name.

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Because "depth" is recursive.

You can search twice without waiting for the results of your first search: iteration.

You can't if the thing you need to search for is the results of your first search: recursion.

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Here's the concept.

Version 1 -> Version 2 -> Version 3 -> ...

You can call it krispy kreme donuts if you want to.

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The “recursive” part comes from the fact that you have an AI which was developed by an AI (that was developed by an AI (that was developed by an AI (…)))
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Sounds like "recursively" walking to the grocery store by putting one foot in front of the other (that put itself in front of the other (that put itself in front of the other (...)))
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I think it's only recursive from the perspective of the humans, i.e. they design Astra, which itself as part of its deployment designs Galactica, etc.

So humans develop things one after the other, but when the thing itself starts developing new things, those are happening 'recursively' in its scope.

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What is the difference between?
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RSI is a fetishistic term among the singularity crowd, who imagine AI "recursively" improving itself in some exponential fashion until there is a bright flash of white light and it reveals itself in the form of god. Or something like that.

I don't know why whoever coined the term chose "recursive" rather than "iterative" - just sounds more likely to lead to infinite regress I suppose.

This notion of recursive/iterative self-improvement, whereby generation #1 AI improves itself to create generation #2, then generation #2 further improves itself to create generation #3, etc, seems to conflict with the reality that what we have with LLMs is models whose performance/capability is defined by data, not code, so the most you can do is have your LLM design synthetic data, or just do Karpathy-style "auto research" where all you are doing is using the LLM to automate your experiments.

At the end of the day, each experiment, designed by a person and/or LLM, then needs to compete with all your other ideas for compute to be tested at scale, and no amount of recursion or self-improvement will materialize an infinite amount of compute out of thin air, so your recursively synthetic-data gobbling LLM will continue to improve at the same pace it ever did.

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“Recursive” is a reasonable term because the generation N AIs will train the Generation N+1 AIs. The term “iterative” doesn’t reflect this nuance as well IMO.
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Recursion reduces each step toward a base case: each step is defined in terms of previous/simpler steps, not more advanced ones. The "recursive" in "recursive self improvement" has things precisely backward. Iteration correctly describes a process where each step is the starting point of its successive step, so it should be "iterative self improvement" but I guess that didn't sound as cool.
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I think you’re conflating the direction of definition with the direction of evaluation.

Compare the similarity of:

  AI(n) = improve(AI(n-1))
With:

  Fib(n) = Fib(n-1) + Fib(n-2)
The latter is a classic example of recursion. So why isn’t the former?

Edit: formatting

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It's not a nuance, it's a sequence.
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I felt like the scaling laws were magical thinking, but apparently they work. However I still do not understand why we should expect exponential improvements due to this automated process. My intuition is that the first iteration of it should result in a noticeable capability increase (though I think these labs were already using a lot of AI to orchestrate training the current model anyway), and then the second iteration of it should be nearly identical in capability to the first, unless more data is involved, more compute is involved, or the model is bigger.
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AI can compress AI nearly losslessly.
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Yes the exponential self improvement folks have never heard of an eigenvalue I guess. You can loop forever using output as input but at some point the result will stop changing (depending on the function)
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The name you are looking for is "fixed points", not "eingevalues".
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that's not really how eigenvalues work... they specifically also model the case where the result keeps changing exponentially.
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The claim is that the RSI operation is just finding a fixed point of improvement,

RSI(LLM) = RSI(LLM) -- for an optimal LLM* which is a fixed point of RSI

As for eigenvalues/vectors, they're fixed points of (1/val)A or A*val

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Eigenvectors represent fixed directions, not fixed magnitudes. From Wikipedia:

> More precisely, an eigenvector v of a linear transformation T is scaled by a constant factor lambda when the linear transformation is applied to it: Tv = lambda v .

In other words, repeated multiplication of an eigenvector by a matrix can still create exponential growth.

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>AI "recursively" improving itself in some exponential fashion until there is a bright flash of white light

Sounds like repetitive stress to me.

>loop forever using output as input but at some point the result will stop changing

Running in place will eventually wear you out too. Plus with some things it can be difficult to know for sure if that's where you are at the time.

Even worse may be if you were almost running in place, it could be orders of magnitude more difficult to discern, especially if the scale was massive to an unprecedented degree.

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What will prevent LLMs from designing robot control circuitry and participating in increase of chip production/design and physical experimentation?

How do you think why there's this fad of producing general purpose humanoid robots?

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> How do you think why there's this fad of producing general purpose humanoid robots?

For doing physical work?

So a swarm of robots builds the shell of your fab overnight, and then what? Where is the EUV machine coming from?

So far the most we're seen TeslaBot do is serve drinks via tele-operation, and I don't think it's exactly built for construction site work.

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For example, TSMC uses behavioral cloning to scale up human-bottlenecked parts of the manufacturing process to meet the growing demand, while automated research laboratories do thousands experiments in parallel to find better manufacturing processes.
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> What will prevent LLMs from designing robot control circuitry and participating in increase of chip production/design and physical experimentation?

Money, regulations, EUV machine lead-times, global helium supply, reality ...

It's funny that we've got the Dwarkesh contingent saying that GPUs will become infinitely expensive, and now another contingent saying that they will become infinitely abundant.

Even if compute were free, and/or the AI was so smart that it picked the right experiments to run every time ("make no mistakes"), you still have to actually train the model, which takes months, and if model Ver. N+1 depends on model Ver. N, then it's iterative regardless of how much compute you have.

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Who's saying that compute will become infinitely abundant? "Singularity" is just a way of saying that known models begin to give absurd predictions. Anyway, intelligence is a way of overcoming obstacles. 10 million tonnes of helium is a nice head start and retraining models from scratch is not guaranteed to last forever.
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AFAIK the notion of a/the technological "singularity" is a point in time where technology is building upon itself (RSI!) so fast, at an ever increasing pace, that the speed of change effectively becomes infinite and incomprehensible to humans.

The word "singularity" is presumably coming from math or space, like a black hole singularity where matter becomes infinitely dense and the known laws of physics break down.

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> 10 million tonnes of helium is a nice head start

Yeah, but then you need to refine it to 99.9999% purity, to be able to use it.

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