Bad example, because translation is deeply creative. You can't blindly mill one language into another, because words and phrases and concepts and cultural references in one language frequently don't map 1:1. You have to find a way to convey meaning as closely as you can and not necessarily the words.
Of course the above requires actual work on the part of the consumer. I realize many don't want that, particularly when it comes to entertainment. So I appreciate that the other sort of "translation" exists but I think it's important to realize what exactly those are.
Thankfully LLMs are more or less to the point of providing what I'm after in near real time.
Words refer to a broad semantic region, a phenomenon technically known as "polysemy".
The range of a word in one language is always different from the range of analogous words in another language. This is a classification problem. And a translator must think about how to solve it. Imagine a Venn diagram with 20 circles that each overlap the other 19 to differing degrees. What does it mean to designate one of those circles as "the literal translation" of a foreign word?
Obviously there are degrees to this and obviously preferences will vary. I acknowledged that.
Imagine a localization attempting to replace a reference to an actor, political scandal, or other concrete cultural reference from one country with the "equivalent" from another. I've encountered that sort of thing before and while there are certainly those who appreciate it I am emphatically not one of them. As far as I'm concerned that's shitty fan fiction.
There are also a lot of examples in most (all?) languages that rely on repetitive sounds, easily mistaken words, or other strictly auditory features of the native language. You literally cannot translate those things. I do not want shitty fan fiction, I want an explanatory note.
- You've got a pet peeve.
- You're going to rant about it, because you want to, whether or not it's relevant to an existing conversation.
- You didn't bother to think about my comments.
- You didn't bother to think about habinero's comment either.
Here is the same passage of the Analects (part of the chapter Gongye Chang) in different translations:
--- Annping Chin ---
Zilu said, "We would like to hear what you would like to see yourself accomplish."
The Master said, "To give comfort to the old, to have the trust of my friends, and to have the young seeking to be near me."
--- David Hinton ---
Adept Lu then said: "No Master, we'd like to hear your greatest ambition."
"To comfort the old, to trust my friends, and to cherish the young."
---
Our focus here is on the second line, what Confucius says. Does he want to trust his friends, or does he want his friends to trust him?
Does he want to cherish the young, or does he want them to cherish him?
We might also ask, though the translators have agreed on this point, whether he wants to comfort the elderly or for the elderly to comfort him. (And we could further ask whether Confucius wants to personally comfort the elderly, or whether what he has in mind is for society in general to do that.)
All three clauses are formed the same way in the original Classical Chinese, and for a couple of interacting technical reasons they are all ambiguous in this way. Translators, as you can see, make different choices.
But of relevance here, when you're doing a translation to English, you have no option but to make a choice. It isn't possible to render the original text 'in literal translation' and append a note explaining what went wrong. You must commit to a meaning behind the text and phrase that meaning in English. You can also append a note explaining that you might have chosen wrong, but English simply doesn't allow you to do anything that parallels the source material.
I think it should be quite clear by now that I am not talking about isolated words that broadly lack an equivalent concept in the target language. I even quoted the bit from the original comment that I took issue with and proceeded to give examples so I'm really not sure where the misunderstanding between us could lie at this point. Perhaps you are the one who should stop and more carefully think about what I wrote?
As to your example. I certainly do not accept that this is a case where we should throw our hands up and accept that different translators will go about things differently. Those two sentences in english have (as you note) rather different meanings. So either one or both translators must be wrong.
You have indicated that the original work in the native language is ambiguous. In such a case I do not think it is remotely acceptable for a translator to arbitrarily pick one of several possible meanings and just run with it. If the original meaning of the text is ambiguous then removing that ambiguity changes the meaning thus it is a bad translation. The translator instead needs to faithfully communicate that ambiguity, possibly resorting to a note if it isn't possible to easily express such a thing in the target language.
I realize that many people aren't going to want such a marked up copy. But without all the gory detail the reader will be consuming some sort of bizarre partial fan fiction. Your example illustrates that perfectly.
I prefer when things are kept 1:1 as is and maybe there's an explanation for things that don't quite make sense as a footnote.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/aug/26/shock-an-aw-...