As I understand, they got paid for the traces unlike owners of scraped websites. They sell text generation tool, so what's the problem if someone generates texts using it?
replyI'd send them the worlds smallest violin but Rufus is getting in the way of me finding it.
replyI had to install an add-on in Waterfox to stop Rufus from following me around and interjecting every 2 minutes.
replyI'd already stopped using Amazon for geopolitical reasons but I needed to get something in an emergency the last week (family member in the hospital, so I bent the rule) first time I'd seen Rufus, even if I wasn't boycotting Amazon for other reasons that monstrosity would have made me consider it.
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replyI would not be surprised in the slightest if we later find out they are running those same open models to find useful traces or bits to incorporate into their own training. Lots of rules for thee but not for me from Big Ai
replyI look forward to a day when open models are so dominant that we stop considering traces to be some form of intellectual property that must be hidden from / manipulated for paying users.
It's that manipulation of inputs and outputs that really rubs me the wrong way
They are copying useful parts of open models 100% especially from deepseek.
replyEvidence?
replynot just the internet, but every commercially published written work in existence, and I doubt their highly publicized destructive scanning thing had managed to legitimize even a fraction of a percent.
replythis what is permissible for Jupiter is not permissible for a cow bullshit alone should tell people all they need to know about what kind of greasy sociopaths run "open"ai and (mis)anthropic, and how seriously you should take their purported stances on "safety" and other self-serving shit.
I understand people just get off posting stuff like this. But creating LLMs from the entire corpus of human text was a huge achievement. Distilling those models is much less of an achievement. It means China is further behind than we thought.
replyThey're using competitor output as additional training input. Shrug.. It's not like they have access to the weights.
replyFirst movers rarely take the prize, though, do they? Les Paul and Mary Ford pioneered overdubbing voices back in the 1940s and 50s. The Beatles stole it from Buddy Holly. And Elton John from the Beatles.
replyDistilling is a massive achievement. I can run Qwen. I can't run GPT (TM). It's not a matter of X is better than Y. It's a matter of Y exists, X does not.
replyHow is China further behind if distillation cannot stop? I think it's a reasonable strategy to follow, even if they could train from scratch.
replydistillation results in a worse product than the actual teacher model iirc
replyNobody care if Chinese models are only 99%, 95% or 90% as good as SotA US models.
replyBecause we only have weights and able to self-host Chinese ones. Gemma 4 and GPT OSS are nice to have, but nowhere close to that.
For some reason, what China is doing seems worse. Part of it is that I want the US to stay ahead of China.
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