As someone who does both hardware design (mostly high precision analog electronics) and software engineering, the difference between both fields in AI capability is striking. Models like Fable and Astra can provide lots of interesting insights into the design of specialty electronics when prompted correctly. Yet they can hardly put that knowledge to work if instructed to generate a schematic or lay out a PCB.

Of course, for readers here with a solid grasp on how LLM's operate it's not exactly surprising. Still, I feel this is exactly the kind of thing that drives home that the way we reason about (general) intelligence does not map cleanly to LLM operation, no matter how advanced the current models are.

AI is exceptionally good at RP2040/RP2350/ESP32-based boards, we've ordered ~15 unique designs, mostly RP2040-based that were designed and autorouted with AI using tscircuit and usually OpenAI models.

Currently the major mistakes that AI makes: 1) Improperly rotated connectors (backwards USB port) 2) Endless routing loops for complex boards 3) Really huge/unreadable single page schematics

I'm extremely bullish on AI for PCB design, but there is a huge, huge tooling gap. We basically need to soup up all our collective design rule checks so that AI can work in corrective loops. It needs to check for things like "opamp schematic layout conventional" and "trace width closely matches reference design for chip". One thing that makes me super excited is supply-chain resiliency when chip/subcircuit-swapping becomes super easy

Bought to us by Fable 5 and the more-experienced colleague who foresaw potential issues.

I'm still waiting on my order of 15 PCBs done with Sol - a mini-BT-keyboard that I hope will be comparable to the Psion 5 / Gemini PDA ones, using Kailh PG1316S switches. I still need to design and manufacture a housing (I do have a lot of hobbyist experience with this though), but the idea is to have a magsafe-connectable keyboard I can clip onto my Pixel and make use of the new Linux subsystem (or Termux) and do some productive stuff on the go. It's just been manufactured by JLC but not shipped yet. Funny enough, production itself was ~$70, then $80 for shipping, taxes and fees (tarriffs?).

Instead of directly generating Kicad, I chose to let it write "generators" in Python that output Kicad (S-Exps!) pcb and project - with mixed results - but I can generate a version with/without per-key Neopixels and customize certain parts of the board, including debug-stuff. I also _think_ this makes it easier to resume working on this in new sessions but not sure. Otoh, I never actually looked at the Python (vibed...) so it's still a lot of hard-coding.

I also landed on and used KicadRoutingTools after trying FreeRouting, combined with some minimal "auto-placing" code for larger ICs and such that are placed with certain constraints. My routing runs are way slower though - on the order of minutes.

I always wanted to try atopile - that might be a good match for AI/PCB work. The only thing that really held me back was the lack of routing.

Can it shop autonomously on LCSC? Is it allowed to?

I saw the board cost, but how about the total cost in tokens to design it? Can empathise with the good and meh feeling you got from it. For me I try to stick with manual struggles with new concepts which grows my brain and allows me learn something new. But its impressive what LLMs can do.

I've been working on several PCB projects, and agents are very helpful for automating many parts of the workflow. They're excellent for schematics. Complex routing, though, is still a human's job for now; I've watched Freerouting fall on its face many times. If you're doing six-layer high-speed DDR routing, AI won't solve that for you today.

However checkout EDA tools https://github.com/l3wi/claude-eda/ https://github.com/drandyhaas/KiCadRoutingTools

In our company, we are doing high speed PCB designs with FPGAs, memories, ADCs, DACs etc. We are not yet using AI much in our PCB design workflow because our designs seem to be too complex for the AI solutions we have tried. Are there any areas where people are successfully incorporating AI to their PCB design workflow, even with complex, high speed designs? Schematic/layout review? Routing? Footprint creation?

It's pretty interesting to watch an LLM drive ngspice. ... clearly an area that could use more training, but good enough to make it less annoying for me to use.

This LED star PCB was 95% generated by Codex: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/8a52LjovhcE

Was non-trivial (e.g. days and days of cumulative work) but worked with Codex to build up a parametric generator where I could adjust the star size, number of rings, leds per ring. It did all the LED-to-LED routing, panel layout with mouse bites, placed decoupling caps. At the time Codex wasn't as good at spatial reasoning, I expect that Astra would do this much faster.

4 x layer PCB with GND and 5V inner layers. WS2816B LEDs (not available in strips yet). 3D printed a frame so that two stars could be opposite each other (video shows only one side). ESP32 S3 on a 3.3v to 5v shifter board sandwiched in between. ESP32 wifi antenna pokes through and sits on a keep out section. Received control signals from a central controller via ESP Now.

Yeah I've built about a dozen boards using GPT-sol 5.6 and my favorite is my Pi CM5 carrier board, to replace a laptop board in an old Sony Vaio p laptop. https://x.com/kanwisher/status/2089629411364745351?s=20

> Upon Claude's compilation of the project, I asked it to prepare the required files for JLCPCB, and tell me what to select on their GUI

It would be an interesting step to get Claude (or other LLM) to do order the PCBs itself on the JLCPCB website.

We're nearly at the stage where you can describe what a device should do, let it design the circuit (using available components on JLCPCB), design a PCB and enclosure then order PCBs, assembly and 3d printed enclosure and get it sent to you for final assembly.

If it's functional: that's a breakthrough.

But: the PCB itself is not looking beautiful in terms of routing and a lot of schematic details yet. Horrible to to be more honest. But that's a minor issue.

I'm not overly shocked. 90% of creating PCBs is copying reference schematics from vendor datasheets and connecting them. That's LLM territory. This mostly failed for now as they just did pdf2text and killed all documents.

The last 10% are brutal (HF, EMC, high frequency multi-layer designs, etc.). But I managed LLMs to automatically create ngspice models using vision onto datasheets.. lol

Yeah, we're still very far from a machine routing PCBs. Nice project, though, looks pretty fun to do it with an AI.

The machine designed the circuit board in two hours, which was impressive, and the human understood it in never, which is becoming traditional.

I built a project nearly identical to this one so knowing the level of complexity required, I'm not surprised it worked. AI is indeed raising the floor. Even simple hobby designs were once out of reach, but now we can "YOLO it and build stuff fast without necessarily knowing about the details" as the author puts it.

That said, without experience it's easy to pierce the veil of "simple circuitry" by accident, just like in XKCD: Tasks[1].

Looking at preview of the author's next project at the end of the article, I'm not so sure the same strategy will work. The board is probably two orders of magnitude more complex. Without knowing the circuit details, I see many red flags (randomly placed ics and decoupling, likely wrong length matching, random thick traces indicating lack of foresight on power distribution, backwards connectors, the probably unnecessary use of BGA footprints, etc).

[1]: https://xkcd.com/1425/

Would you be willing to share the full design files? Considering most of the PCB is well-trodden territory, it would be quite interesting to see the details what it actually came up with!

Very cool! Can you reveal how much this custom board cost you?

> That said, I was not feeling much of an accomplishment, rightfully so. I used to enjoy the learning and the struggle that came with it.

> Yes it does suck that the joy we had while building has been sucked out of us

> For my hobby projects tho, I will continue to YOLO it and build stuff fast without necessarily knowing about the details.

I don't understand this conclusion. LLMs sucked the joy out of it, didn't feel rewarding, you're forced to use them at work, so you decide... just keep doing it at home, too? Why not actually learn to build a proper PCB knowing you can do much better than this horrible (despite being dead-simple) board that only got there with the help of your expert colleague's guidance anyways? Don't succumb to utter laziness and deny yourself the satisfaction of learning new skills, that's letting the thing rot your brain out worse than any TV ever did.