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by vintermann20 hours ago |
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upvoteby vincnetas20 hours ago|
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what do you mean "fair game"? by the same logic russia attacking ukraine is also "fair game".

"hei cmon im just atacking my neighbor its fair game, what else should i do"

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upvoteby account4219 hours ago|
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Let's say I pay someone to punch you int the face every day. Then one day when you punch me in the face do I have a right to complain?
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upvoteby feoren18 hours ago|
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Your analogy is way off base. This is how you've framed it:

> Let's say I [the Netherlands] pay [!?] someone [Ukraine] to punch you [Russia] int the face every day. Then one day when you [Russia] punch me [Ukraine] in the face do I have a right to complain?

Ukraine is defending itself, and nobody is paying Ukraine to do that. Russia is the aggressor here. It's weird that I need to point that out. We're talking about Russia sabotaging someone for selling defensive capabilities to Ukraine. So a better analogy is this:

Let's say I punch you in the face every day. Then one day you buy a baseball bat from Gart Sports to defend yourself, so I go in and punch the manager of Gart Sports. Am I in the wrong?

Yes, very obviously, when you frame the analogy correctly, you are in the wrong.

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upvoteby vintermann17 hours ago|
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> defensive capabilities to Ukraine

With you up until there. There's nothing defensive about drones. Retributive capabilities certainly, pre-emptive capabilities maybe, but absolutely offensive capabilities, not defensive ones. Attacking Russia back was a line that was definitively crossed in May 2024. You may argue it was justified, but not that it wasn't attacking. In terms of that stupid punching analogy (which wasn't yours to begin with, I know) this is going over to your bully's neighborhood with that baseball bat.

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upvoteby hdgvhicv12 hours ago|
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So when someone is firing missiles at you, it’s not defensive to blow up the launcher?
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upvoteby don_esteban4 hours ago|
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The Ukrainian drones are not blowing up launchers. They are blowing up refineries and warehouses.
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upvoteby hdgvhicv3 hours ago|
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Warehouse containing kit to build the drones, refineries producing fuel to fuel the tanks
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upvoteby vintermann10 minutes ago|
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and people who could do those things. Sure. That was a line which was crossed, and everyone knew that - including Ukraine, which is why they didn't do it until two years into the war after getting explicit permission from the governments supplying them with weapons.

But that leaves us back where we started doesn't it? If it's fair game to attack civilian infrastructure which was used or could be used to make the weapons you are getting hit with - then why should it make a difference if it's in the Netherlands? Or in China for that matter? I'm pretty sure that if Russian weapons were made in a state technically not in the conflict (say Belarus), that wouldn't stop Ukraine from sabotaging them.

I'm not denying that Russia was the initial aggressor. I am saying enough lines have been crossed that we really can't fault Russia if they wanted to sabotage weapons production in the west.

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upvoteby 20 hours ago|
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upvoteby 20 hours ago|
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upvoteby vintermann20 hours ago|
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I mean what I said: if you're being attacked by drones, then no one can fault you for trying to sabotage the production of those drones, even if they're made in a different country than the one which is sending them against you.

But, you can and should fault Russia for getting into that position in the first place, that their neighbor is attacking them back with drones.

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upvoteby Sabinus12 hours ago|
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I guess no one can fault the West for retaliating by paying people to light stuff on fire in Russia, for deterrence. And I guess no one can blame the West for sending Ukraine more missiles to fire into Russia, to end the war.
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upvoteby hdgvhicv12 hours ago|
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Amazes me how the right wing American view point is so anti the “Someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back” of libertarian darling Malcolm Reynolds from 25 years ago. Reagan would be spinning in his grave with how Russia has owned the discourse.
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upvoteby vincnetas20 hours ago|
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but why are you attacked by drones thats the million dollar question...
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upvoteby vintermann17 hours ago|
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Which I answered?
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