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The user friendly option would be to print the amount of RAM in very large letters on the PCB. There happens to be a lot of suitable surface on the PCB to the right of the text "Raspberry Pi 5" on the PCB anyway (§). Right now the amount of RAM is hard to read and easy to modify (move a little tiny SMD resistor).

Drawback: You need different silkscreens for different amounts of RAM.

Btw, if you're worried about RAM-swapped units you can already verify them as described at https://geekworm.com/blogs/news/prevent-ram-swapped-raspberr...

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(§) as can be seen here https://pip-assets.raspberrypi.com/categories/1129-pcn/docum...

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A little bit of acetone and a q-tip will remove the silkscreen, and then the PCB can easily re-marked by the scammer. Having a new silkscreen made is pocket change.
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Etch it in the top layer of copper, cover it with soldermask. A bit harder to see, but harder to tamper.
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Put a sticker over it. Sure, the PCB says 2GB, the sticker says 8GB, it was sold as 8GB, how many buyers are going to dig in and really understand what's going on?
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That's still trivial to defeat. They're very capable and determined. In the olden days they used to mill the top of microprocessor ie intel x86 to remove the engraving and engrave the fake label. These days I imagine it's way more advanced
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That is in no way trivial.
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One way of doing it... You can blast away the original markings / copper using laser and put something in place like sheet of copper or something that resembles copper, add solder mask layer on top. Done.

These operations are not hobbyist level, they have access to the machinery to make it trivial.

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Please, I could just fill the gap with the same-colored solder mask, flatten it out, cure it, you'd never see the rework.

It is so trivial anyone that's ever done fingernail polish can do it. The process is roughly the same.

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No, this is not sufficient, since it would still allow you to swap to shite ram of the same size. This is an age-old problem for counterfeits. The ink on the chip/PCB isn't worth anything. The only way to actually catch this is to do a IQC that runs a full RAM test and hope that if you can't see a difference in performance (throughput, BER, timings, etc), then the chip is correct, with a bit of periodic de-lidding for anything suspicious/sampled. Then, if you can afford it, you blacklist the vendors that are caught changing things.

They also added a bit of internal ink, which is worth just a little more:

> we now also program in some other device attributes, meaning that switching parts of the same size may not work.

Working with vendors in China is entirely adversarial (mostly because their supply chain is vulnerable too), at this scale.

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it can be very easily done by burning it with laser on prepared blank box on silkscreen - even iPhones are marked this way with their own serial numbers

the only reason why pis are not marked this way is because raspberry didn't wanted to (so far)

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Just make the RAM mismatch a warning that voids warranty rather than a hard error. This is no excuse for forcing hardware pairing
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Mac Minis used to have soldered on SSDs, but the 2024 model is upgradable. A lot of people purchased a cheaper Mac Mini and upgraded the storage themselves. Most people would argue this is a good thing, even if some of those Mac Minis were resold. This is no different.
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> Mac Minis used to have soldered on SSDs, but the 2024 model is upgradable. A lot of people purchased a cheaper Mac Mini and upgraded the storage themselves. Most people would argue this is a good thing, even if some of those Mac Minis were resold. This is no different.

Replacing a socketed component that is modular by design, even if it's not officially intended to be upgraded outside the factory, is worlds different from replacing BGA components on a densely packed PCB.

That said, there could also be a middle ground by just providing some way to look up the hardware specs of a given serial number. Post the part numbers of the components that you're concerned about being replaced and provide tools to verify as many of them through software as is practical. Allow owners to know if their device has been modified and how so, but allow them to choose what to do with that information.

Combating fraudsters trying to pass off modified and/or refurbished devices as genuine is valid, but preventing owners from modifying or repairing their own or knowingly purchasing such devices from honest resellers is not.

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It absolutely is different. You just said the Mac Mini is upgradable but the Pi is still soldered on. Desoldering and soldering a new RAM unit carries huge risks no matter how skilled people claim they are at it.
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> It absolutely is different. You just said the Mac Mini is upgradable but the Pi is still soldered on.

I'm sorry, you seem to be confused. Soldering is not the problem. Locking up the hardware to have hardware provisioned tier limits to block you from upgrading your own hardware is silly.

And do note, raspberry pi doesn't prevent you from switching RAM chips. The board will continue to work just the same with high capacity variants. But for some reason raspberry pi hardcodes a max memory size that prevents you from using the hardware upgrade you paid for in full.

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> When the unit doesn’t work correctly, the anger and RMA requests are directed back at the Raspberry Pi foundation.

They don't need the resellers help for that! I've already been burned twice thinking "I'll use a raspberry pi for this small project" and having it die within a month because reliably reading/writing to an SD card is hard or something.

Between the notorious unreliability, crazy price hikes, trademark or whatever disputes, and this anti consumer ewaste generating policy, I can't think of any reason I'd ever patronize them again.. my only regret is it took me two purchases to learn this lesson!

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What if the manufacturer charged no markup on RAM price, wouldn't it make "illegal upgrading" pointless because they couldn't compete on price? The manufacturer buys RAM in bulk and has better pricing.
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Oh no, there were bad actors on the market, let's lock the hardware so cheaper but genuine options can't emerge.

> When the unit doesn’t work correctly, the anger and RMA requests are directed back at the Raspberry Pi

It's not their problem then, the seller is responsible for it and I think we can assume the user has a brain so they knew they could buy a more expensive option from the authorized sellers. Isn't this the case?

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> "we can assume the user has a brain"

Dangerous assumption there. I'm not just being cynical, that is decades of experience speaking.

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could it be construed as anti-competitive to block end-users or resellers from swapping RAM?
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No. Price discrimination and locking hardware are not illegal.
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lets try proof by exhaustion:

in those jurisdictions where either price discrimination or locking hardware are not illegal, it is typically perfectly legal to reverse engineer for compatibility purposes. So nothing prevents such resellers from upping their game and learning a thing or two about link training and general SDRAM bringup.

Once they have acquired the knowledge legally in such jurisdictions the product just flows in the other jurisdictions anyway.

Courts upheld the monopolistic position of microsoft etc. for decades, but respect has no finality, "re" + "spect" to review, so later such companies were fined for their decades long transgressions.

But during those decades it may appear legal to the average consumer.

Inaction is not permission.

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All of this is pretty irrelevant from a legal perspective.

Reverse engineering is legal, but manufacturers don’t have to help you figure out how to reverse engineer their products and they’re allowed to design their products in a way that makes it difficult.

There’s generally not a lot of jurisdictions out there that make stuff like hardware lockdowns of this nature illegal, especially for companies that are not in regulated industries or are not monopoly/oligopoly players.

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> All of this is pretty irrelevant from a legal perspective.

> Reverse engineering is legal, but manufacturers don’t have to help you figure out how to reverse engineer their products and they’re allowed to design their products in a way that makes it difficult.

I'm not asking for help to figure this out, and of course RP is allowed to shoot themselves in any foot they like.

Consider Europe where such reverse engineering is perfectly legal for compatibility purposes. Let's consider an idealized scenario, there were no security bugs or other issues with the product that would justify reverse engineering RP blobs in public. When they do something like this, they are GIVING CARTE BLANCHE to public reverse engineering efforts to attain compatibility with other RAM chips. Why would you provide legal cover in some jurisdictions for others in publicly reverse engineering your own products by introducing artificial incompatibility?

Also from a consumer perspective, RP tries to place itself front and center in maker communties, emphasizing modularity, not just hobbyists, also companies build and design end products using RP units. All of these companies must now be wondering where RP Foundations exact red line resides: can we resell an RP board in a Kiosk we made? or only for as long as it doesn't compete with RP's future Kiosk modules? Today its the RAM upgrade, but tomorrow RP modules may refuse to boot some popular Kiosk hardware intentionally. What prevents RP Foundation from eventually "not copying" end-application hardware like a Kiosk design from their customers, and then enforcing compatibility only with RP Kiosks?

So not only are they providing legal cover for public reverse engineering efforts, they are scaring part of their customer base.

> There’s generally not a lot of jurisdictions out there that make stuff like hardware lockdowns of this nature illegal, especially for companies that are not in regulated industries or are not monopoly/oligopoly players.

That's a very shallow interpretation of law, looking only at what RP is or isn't allowed to do.

There's generally not a lot of jurisdictions out there that make stuff like reverse engineering for compatibility or security applications illegal either.

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I think you’re overestimating the peril RP puts itself in here.
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You'd be well advised to remember there is a world beyond your visible horizon.
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I prefer to stay grounded in the reality of how the world works when responding to questions about legalities.
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What you said isn't true for quite a few countries.
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That's quite possible, but could you name a couple where locking a raspberry pi type of computer would be illegal?
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EU Right to Repair Directive specifically prohibits manufacturers from using HW/SW locks or firmware limits to block part replacement.
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The part replacement isn't being blocked? The OP's CM5 with replaced RAM is still a working CM5 according to him.
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The part can be replaced with the same part to repair the item. This is not locked.
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Part locking against unoriginal parts is prohibited in the EU.
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"Each chip is programmed with the timing settings and storage size settings of just the RAM we ship it with, and doesn't know how to boot with anything else." I don't know if you could call that "blocking." I mean you could call it that but I don't know if that's legally what it would be.
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Lots of things aren't illegal... unless you do them for illegal purposes.

I doubt antitrust would get anywhere on this RAM issue, but antitrust law is not defined in terms of either of those categories.

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Probably not.

Doing a RAM swap and then selling the resulting unit as if it were a Raspberry Pi of the higher RAM capacity might be construed as trademark infringement[0]. And in general it's fairly difficult to make arguments in antitrust cases that boil down to "yes, your honor, everything they're doing is within their rights but I don't like it".

[0] At the same time, the scammers could probably get away with this by putting "Upgraded to 16GB!" in the title of their eBay listings or whatever, in the same way that fraudulent storage devices are labeled as "upgraded" (read: lying about their capacity). That doesn't impact the antitrust analysis though.

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I certainly agree that such a reseller should clearly state the modification, and not pretend its an authentic RPi 8GB unit.

But if this is the real concern, they could just display the fact that "Unoriginal RAM detected" to inform the user its not a vanilla RPi Foundation product, so buyers understand the situation, but continue booting normally.

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In practice, this would still leave the RPi Foundation with the warranty and support burden generated by the "reseller's" activity.
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For every user asking questions and facing issues for such-or-such firmware or software support they need in their projects, that same user would have appeared regardless if their Pi came from RP directly or through a reseller.

Every board sold would have been an extra user, the reseller isn't adding full users (although they may increase the indirect customer base!), so even gaining a user through a reseller increases the amortization divider for the support burden.

Now lets consider RAM chip support burden, the original Pi RAM chips can have issues generating support burden, and so can the reseller RAM chips. Unless RP foundation refuses to upstream link training / RAM bringup patches from resellers, there is no real additional support burden.

In fact if RP were a little more creative, they could have tried contacting the resellers to explain they can continue their modding business as long as they advertise it clearly as modified, and to inform them they will be receiving units that didn't pass the RAM tests from the automated lines, since they're going to desolder the chips anyway, this can save costs for RP foundation.

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But bricking retroactively in the field is a bad move, and sends even more anger and RMA requests back towards parties.

https://github.com/therealdreg/ftdibrick

Pepperidge Farm remembers the FTDI driver bricking.

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gateway 3ds tried to brick 3ds-es of users of cloned cards, bricked whole swaths of actual users instead

https://www.eurogamer.net/3ds-flashcard-includes-secret-kill...

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It's not bricked retroactively from what I've read.
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https://github.com/raspberrypi/rpi-eeprom/issues/761

If someone gets updated in the wild (like this person did without realizing they had a counterfeit board), they'll fail to boot.

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Consider that that happened a year ago and this submission may be about the fix.
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The "fix" in the thread is just not updating ever again.
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There is no fix that can be suggested in that thread. Pi LTD doesn't have the modified RAM Pis to test their firmware against nor should they be required to support modified hardware.
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Should just print "warranty void on unauthorized RAM", instead of not booting
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It does boot.
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[dead]
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Curiously NVIDIA have long allowed consumer GPUs to be upgraded with larger memory chips - they could very easily reject booting those configurations. This is something done almost exclusively by unsavory Chinese actors who then sell on the bare retail PCBs (core removed, since they use different PCBs and heatsinks) to various scammers that foist them upon unsuspecting retail buyers.

In short, someone at NVIDIA really hates retail, but loves Chinese sanction busters.

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