I wish they could do something about fare evasion. I ride Muni fairly often (both buses and trains), and I see maybe 20% of people paying when they get on. I know some of the remaining 80% probably have monthly passes or something and don't strictly need to tag on, but I can't imagine it's a large percentage. Biggest offenders seem to be out-of-towners who are going to Chase Center or Oracle Park events (I live in the Dogpatch and see a lot of that on event days). There's no excuse now that the fare terminals accept NFC credit cards too (and not just Clipper cards). I expect getting more people to pay could solve some of these funding problems, or at least make them less severe.
(I do wonder if the cost of fare enforcement exceeds what they'd recover in fares, though...)
Looking at the list of options on [2], your observed 1-in-5 Clipper taps seems within the realm of plausibility; there are a lot of ways to pay for Muni that aren’t visible to fellow passengers. In particular, out-of-towners who plan to ride Muni a lot are likely to get a MuniMobile (or, for the old-fashioned, paper) pass; and a ticket to any Chase Center event also counts as a Muni day pass. You also mentioned monthly passes (I know a lot of people who get them from their company’s commuter benefits), and there’s also transfers: not only are “single ride” fares valid for 2 hours, but if you board after 8:30pm you can’t tap again, because Clipper can’t handle it and you’ll be double charged!
[1] https://www.sfmta.com/projects/paying-your-fares-keeps-us-mo... [2] https://www.sfmta.com/getting-around/muni/fares
Reminder that vast majority of the fare is covered by taxes (Roughly 87%). I wish they should just fund the remaining 13% instead.
It might not even cost that much more considering all of the expenses involved with hiring more staff (Salary/healthcare/pensions etc.) to collect the last 13 cents on the dollar.
But came here to say the same thing. There is an advertising campaign in SF right now to encourage people to vote to give Muni more money (again) in November, because they can't cover their essential costs. This...looks pretty non-essential to their core mission to me.
They should have done everything they can inside their org to cut costs, before going to ask residents to give them more money.
Now I hope - maybe this is primarily funded by donations / grants or volunteer work, and SFMTA contributes very little to this. If so great - but it would have been wise for them be very clear about that.
I obviously am I biased, and think this is very very cool. There are many intangibles here beyond the budget numbers; a bit of history, a bit of whimsy, a bit of color to what is often utilitarian (public transit). It certainly attracts tourists to the city (I was pretty surprised at the number of out of towners at Muni heritage weekend).
But I do think it's important, not just for tourism but also as a legitimate connector along the Embarcadero corridor that otherwise has no public transit along it. Agree that a breakout of the cost of maintaining these things would be appreciated, not sure if that exists in clear terms, but I don't think it's massive. For example Car 162 was damaged in a collision in 2014, and took 12 years to fix and return to service. For many gripmen / Muni restorationists working for the city, it's a side project.
And while I'm here, I'd be remiss if I didn't post an article about Maurice Klebolt, one of the biggest advocates for vintage transit in San Francisco. It describes how he acquired car 106 from the Soviet Union [2]
[1]: https://www.streetcar.org/streetcars/162-162-muni-1950s-live...
Would you be up for posting it in, say, a couple months and then email hn@ycombinator.com? We'll put it in the SCP [2] for sure, so it will get a random placement on HN's front page.
[1] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
At 2024 numbers in this SPUR report:
Cable car 872 streetcare 631 lightrail 412 system avg 327 motorbus 302 trolleybus 281
So canceling each cable car could IIUC, allow the system to add roughly 3 electric buses.
https://www.spur.org/sites/default/files/2026-03/SPUR_Taking...
*> Cable cars are a symbol of San Francisco, a major tourist attraction, and an indelible feature of the city’s cultural and historical landscape. [...] While SPUR doesn’t recommend changing SFMTA’s role in cable car operations, the agency may wish to explore options to generate additional revenue from the cable car system or seek supplemental support from the city’s budget, given the outsized expense of providing cable car service and the unique value this mode brings to the city as a cultural attraction. SFMTA already acknowledges the special status of cable cars by pricing them differently from other modes and by excluding cable car service from some of its passes and fare discount programs.
Apart from that, I suspect the per-service-hour figure is particularly misleading for cable cars and removing one cable car from the schedule would free up significantly less than $871: there is a significant fixed overhead (from power usage and cable wear) to having the system running at all, regardless of how many cars are on it.
1: https://codelibrary.amlegal.com/codes/san_francisco/latest/s... 2: https://www.cablecarmuseum.org/60th_Anniversay.html