upvote
CEOs manage to fail upwards their entire career, I don't suspect this will be any different. Just some "nerds on a forum" who got annoyed with his personal decisions.
reply
I think this is broadly true of leaders including lesser ones. It even seems true of roles like product manager.

The vast majority of projects seem to not meet their stated goals or KPIs or mission, be late, not follow remotely the planned path, etc. Whether blame falls on poor execution, poor planning, or overpromsing, those are precisely the things that chosen leaders are supposed to have been chosen to avoid—and what they would in theory fail downwards for. Unpredictable things do happen, but the regularity of these outcomes for projects (and products as a whole) means we're systematically choosing the wrong ones, there aren't enough capable ones (period), and/or that we shouldn't be org'd to need them in the first place. The last one is simply saying that if the environment is unpredictable enough that you can't plan well, then let's not spend time and money on planning. That in itself axes large chunks of the things product leaders do before work starts.

It makes iterating a more likely plan, but most teams and workstreams don't iterate too much. The iterating that sometimes is done is typically downstream of the plan, strategy, architecture that leadership leadershipped. They might do better without all the planning and overpromised timelines, which gut iterating. Iteration is only sort of a strategy anyhow (depends on what layer we're talking about when we say strategy). Iteration is what hedges a lack of vision.

reply
New devs learn quickly that when the TPM over promises it's the devs job to take the fall when delivery is late, or kill themselves so the TPM can take credit.
reply
Some would call this a valuable skill.
reply
100% this. The CEO at my last company squandered hundreds of millions of investor funds, and now he's the CEO at another company taking on hundreds of millions in debt.

Another example: current CEO of Cerebras, is an SEC felon from a prior company (for cooking the books), and now he's CEO of a public company.

reply
Feldman "failing up" is being the CEO of a public company he _founded_.

"failed up" is currently defined as founding a company that goes public and being its CEO. I'd love to know what success is.

reply
In my eyes, success is a profitable company.
reply
yea this isn't "and another example just off the top of my head" - this guy co-founded seamicro then cerebras both pretty badass companies, he was a vp of marketing not ceo when the sec sued not just him but the entire executive team. trudging up 20 year old nonsense to try and punch a guy who legit deserves his success is bullshit
reply
Cerebras is an 11 year old unprofitable company with a stock that is down 30% since the IPO, in the hottest market ever.

They've pivoted many times over the years trying to make "wafer scale" work in a variety of use cases, and they still haven't gotten it right.

By the way, the CTO is dumping stock left and right and the stock is down nearly 5% today alone...

https://www.marketbeat.com/instant-alerts/insider-cerebras-s...

reply
that's an automatic, prenegotiated sell off - calling that dumping is worse than calling the ceo a felon (at least one is technically true). are any of the big ai companies actually profitable? how has cerebras not gotten their chip right? they're the only company shipping wafer scale inference hardware, and they're shipping to the largest labs in the world. and it works - I use cerebras.ai the token rate is amazing
reply
Sell offs don't have to happen, and $25m isn't some small amount of money.

> how has cerebras not gotten their chip right?

It doesn't scale, and won't ever be profitable. They pivoted to inference, which has the unfortunate (for them) side effect of also requiring a boat load of memory. This is why they just partnered with AMD to offload onto their chips.

> I use cerebras.ai the token rate is amazing

Ah, investor. Explains your responses.

reply
Not supporting GPs argument, but one can appreciate the t/s on cerebras.ai without being an investor.
reply
deleted
reply
Lol! Wat? Got more details?(On cerebras)
reply
reply
Thanks! Always amazing that people don't know this stuff. Oh and the current CFO of Cerebras was the CFO of Bird, another giant failure.
reply
I am sure this poignantly describes some CEOs, but my guess is this is probably empirically false on average.

(I'd ask some LLM to research it but the people who would be doubtful it's false significantly overlap with the people who distrust LLMs, so I'll just leave this as a random guess and nothing more.)

reply
Feels like survivorship bias to me. CEO's fail up, except those that fail down, and the latter group aren't CEO's anymore, so they're less likely to show up in a sample.
reply
It might be, but ... there are a lot of us who've seen this happen time and time again.

You have some startup, the founder is either young or doesn't want to do the CEO stuff. Things kind of eek along until the founder either steps aside or is removed by the board because a) it's time for a "grown-up" CEO; b) the CEO needs real sales experience; c) the founder overpromised and under-delivered; d) board/VC politics make it helpful to install a buddy as CEO; e) etc.

Then the CEO clock starts, typically they have 18 months to get lucky and hit their metrics. They do a lot of glad-handing. They hire "their team" of sales/marketing/etc people. They spend A LOT of money. And I mean A LOT. They talk about OKRs or SMRTs and KPIs. Out of nowhere a small army of project managers show up and try to tell you how to do your job and why you can't just talk to the <thing X> team directly but have to go through them for "efficiency" and "visibility."

In 3-6 months, senior engineering and R&D staff starts to leave. Whatever culture you had slips away. HR has "culture" meetings to "find the right company culture."

Sales/product can't sell and points the finger at R&D, maybe even for the right reasons. You OKR/KPI harder, but it doesn't matter because nothing addresses whatever the underlying problem is. Multiple senior people have pointed loudly to the problem and are ignored; they're often not managers so it's unclear if they were even heard.

At some point there are one or more rounds of layoffs; sometimes these are announced, sometimes it's just a gradual attrition.

Eventually the CEO clock runs out. They don't get lucky. Nothing they did helped, and some of it hurt. They collect their $1M severance, get to keep their stock, get 9-12 months of health insurance, and move on. In a year or two you hear about them joining a new company as CEO.

In the meantime, you've either moved on or have a new CEO with a new 18-month clock.

reply
deleted
reply
I have been in a CEO replacement at my previous job. The owners were not happy with how things were going and replaced him. It was a decision only two or three people on the board participated in, even most of the board had no idea. In public, however, the only information that came out was that the CEO decided that his mission had been accomplished and it was time to look for new opportunities. These people never publicly tell the truth, what you hear on the news is what they want you to hear. The truth is almost certainly something completely different.
reply
>He's never going to be hired as CEO by anybody for the rest of his career.

just need to spin the departure as being decisive and able to make tough decisions and he'll be back in the ceo seat in no time. especially if muse does well.

reply
Yeah there’s a recruiting firm that literally hires ex-CEOs, puts them on the bench, then searches for their next “assignment”. They pay these people to golf until they place them.

https://www.heidrick.com/

reply
There's multiple of these for executives. We tried using one at my last company to find a Sales exec (I think they would have been c-level). I was part of the interviewing process and what we found out was that we absolutely needed the ideas and practices these candidates had and simultaneously couldn't afford them at even half their asking price. It was a real conundrum and the company more or less failed 18 months later after management decided "doing nothing" was the right decision.
reply
It's common for VCs to do the same as "entrepreneur in residence"
reply
>He's never going to be hired as CEO by anybody for the rest of his career

I'd eat my shorts if this was true. But even then he is likely set for life with his wealth, pre Meta offer.

reply
Right. He was "set for life" pre MongoDB even. He was an early investor in Datadog.
reply
> He's never going to be hired as CEO by anybody for the rest of his career.

This is a great example of saying how things should work, which is almost the exact opposite of how they actually work.

reply
The halo effect of being in the orbit of a product on the way up (as Muse appears to be) can offset almost any wrong. If Muse succeeds, he could get a CEO job anywhere he likes.
reply
> One reason might be the share price has collapsed and he has no confidence in it coming back (pretty scandalous if he's the CEO!)

From looking at the historical prices, it was down from $450 to $410 from a month ago, but still quite a bit from $235 six months ago, which is not anything close to what I'd consider "collapsed". Of course, he might have expected to continue going down, but that's going to be hard to measure in the short term given that announcements like this tend to affect the price directly in the short term (so far down to $338 today, close to double the loss of the entire previous month, although it seems far too soon to draw any conclusions).

Not that I think I'm saying anything that has any sort of bias, but it's probably reasonable in case anyone happens to read this and be suspicious: I did work at MongoDB for around five years (but haven't worked there for nearly as long), and from that stint I did have a sizable amount of shares, although as of last year I no longer hold any (for reasons completely unrelated to any personal opinions of the company; I had procrastinated way too much on making any sort of decision about how much to hold onto and for how long, so when my wife and I were buying a house, I decided it was time to just liquidate it and put it towards that instead).

reply
> He's never going to be hired as CEO by anybody for the rest of his career.

I haven't had this experience I have found a lot of people who burnt the damn house down get hired in a company for a similar role in a few months especially CEOs and executives. Including large companies, I had someone I know in a c suite role who burnt a few other companies to join competitors now working in Tesla and a friend who burnt the bridges with supposedly half the SF who is still employed in a similar c-suite role in SF.

I really don't think people care unless you are a nobody sofware developer who tried to do the same perhaps, mostly because I can't prove it.

reply
I think the most instructive example of this is Stephen Elop. He had ONE (1) successful business venture in the 90's and has done a horrible, laughably destructive job at everything he has ever touched since, and is still a CEO.
reply
> One reason might be the share price has collapsed and he has no confidence in it coming back

Not sure how you made that assessment!

52 Week Range: 215.68 - 473.10

Yesterday, it closed at 410.44. Clearly, very far away from collapse. In fact, it made a solid comeback (almost doubled from lows).

https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/MDB/

reply
Oh man, he'll probably just have to eke out a living on $300m or something to last him the rest of his life. It will be tough.
reply
Isn't it also a possibility that he gave notice and it wasn't announced to the world until his last day?
reply
Which probably means it's time for the adventurous to try and short MongoDB
reply
Or he told the board he’s resigning and they told him it’s immediate. It’s unlikely he resigned with zero notice so he could go the Meta the very next day.
reply
> He's never going to be hired as CEO by anybody for the rest of his career.

Maybe he had enough.

reply
Do you think he needs to make any more money in his life, or can he retire tomorrow and live comfortably long past his death?
reply
>he does and is willing to forfeit any benefit from it like share options

His stocks/options vested/exercised last Friday. He's not forfeiting anything.

reply
Where do you see that information?
reply
He is 60 years old per wikipedia, this is likely his last rodeo. He has held board positions at Datadog, Athena Health, App Dynamics and other places in addition to his job at Mongo per LinkedIn. He was also at Mongo for 11 years.

It seems he is deeply connected, and probably approaching centimillionaire wealth.

Even if he is burning some bridges, its not going to affect his career at this point.

Edit: I looked at the current interim CEO's profile, not the outgoings, but its almost the same story- he is 55, been on other boards, has experience at director+ level since 1995 listed... this isn't going to hurt his career.

reply
I just don’t understand the drive of these people to keep seeking further power and wealth when they already are richer than most people could ever imagine. Just go enjoy your life.
reply
I don’t think these people can sit around and enjoy nature. Nobody rewards you for enjoying nature. All their life they have learned to climb the social ladder and have become good at it, they keep getting rewarded and praised for it, so that’s what they do and keep doing.

I think they’re missing some internal loop. Only external rewards satisfy them and they maximise for that. Stopping is not an option, because then the rewards stop coming and they have no idea how to exist when that happens.

reply
Reminds me the Bill Gates and the fisherman joke/story (which is based on an older/similar story): https://sampatpatnaik.blogspot.com/2008/10/bill-gates-fisher...
reply
Also, instead of enjoying life they choose to report to Zuck, eww
reply
high functioning sociopaths are still sociopaths. The domination and power are the point, not just something they are doing to make some cash.
reply
> One reason might be the share price has collapsed and he has no confidence in it coming back (pretty scandalous if he's the CEO!), or Meta has offered him inducements > what he's walking away from.

Or there's something else scandalous happening and he wants to halt a bad look ASAP? I don't get why he or Meta couldn't have waited a couple weeks otherwise.

reply
The third option could surely be he was fired ? Although I would imagine MongoDB would have organised someone already to take over.
reply
The previous CEO immediately returned as interim CEO, so they sort of did have someone ready.
reply
Interim is always a temp one though, and the fact it was the previous feels to me at least like them saying "Hey we need a favour" but I have no insight.
reply
the share price dropping was due to him leaving, not the cause of him leaving (but this is very bearish for mongo)
reply
> He's never going to be hired as CEO by anybody for the rest of his career.

You must be new to the corporate world or incredibly naive.

reply
deleted
reply
People get fired effective immediately.
reply
deleted
reply
If he makes Meta a shit ton of money then nobody will care and he’ll easily find more jobs.
reply
No way. CEOs with significant experience are not easy to find so he’s going to do just fine.
reply
Maybe this is a silly assumption, but, he reached the title, he’s got the ladder-climbing experience to understand his choice.
reply
or "resigned to spend more time with the family" aka was fired
reply
He is likely being promised a chance at succession to CEO.
reply
no chance, will definitely be Mosseri, Mark is not handing the reigns to an enterprise guy
reply
Agreed an enterprise guy is not the next CEO but I doubt Zuck has any near term succession plan.

Mosseri is basically the same age as Zuck, and Zuck still seems extremely hands on.

Check back in 10 years to see how things are going, maybe its Wang or a currently unknown 20 something.

reply
He don't need to be CEO with the money he already have.
reply
he got fired
reply
Not sure why he'd want to take the pay cut with being a CEO
reply
He's never going to be hired as CEO by anybody for the rest of his career.

I wish I had your belief in sensible logic like that.

But I suspect you're wrong, even though you shouldn't be.

reply
> One reason might be the share price has collapsed and he has no confidence in it coming back (pretty scandalous if he's the CEO!)

Is it?

Scandals require consequence. He's getting a new job at Meta. It'll take lawsuits to suss all of this out and those take years.

Worth noting: CJ wasn't just the CEO, he was also board member and president.

This is what happens when you don't have effective corporate governance.

reply
deleted
reply
Workers are so much more militant and punitive than executives. It's not other executives that will try and hurt his career because he made a decision and went with it. It will be the worker bees that will attempt to hurt him 5 years down the road -- without even knowing the full story.
reply
There are very practical reasons to not hire someone who abruptly dips after less than a year on the job that have nothing to do with being punitive.
reply
Yes, those poor executives.
reply
The execs are fine. The barrel crabs certainly are getting active though. It's pure, unadulterated envy. Nothing more.
reply
its a small club, and you ain't in it friend. No matter how many boots you lick.
reply
You sound frustrated. He'll be fine.
reply