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That's an interesting analogy as a lot of Factorio players feel like the game becomes fun when you gets bots (to the point where there are mods so you start the game with them).

For me, the individual placing of items gets pretty tedious. Solving nuclear power is interesting once but placing the same thing a second, third or tenth time is pretty dull.

The challenge of Factorio shifts throughout the game - initially you're worrying about individual metal plates and then you're dealing with belts full and then it's entire sections of your factory. This is why the Space Age DLC is so fun, it adds an entire new dimension of worrying about getting things between planets in a timely fashion.

Eventually the final boss is UPS (basically the performance of the game on your computer). Suddenly "the factory must grow" stops being the solution to your problems and usually makes things worse.

I don't think it ever reaches "vibe coding" levels - true, you can end up not knowing how part of your factory works but it's still a lot more active than just typing in a bunch of prompts.

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Very easy to optimise the fun out of Factorio. I have a hard rule: no blueprints carried forward between saves. It's more fun for me to figure out what I can design quickly that kinda works and kinda supports scaling. A lot of the time I'll just build something as a repeatable unit cell and then use copy/paste, skipping the blueprints. I think it's worth trying this out.
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Agreed, and aside from balancers and some train grid blueprints I don't use external blueprints. There are just some things I don't like re-inventing. Sometimes if I do a back-to-back factorio game I'll bring over some blueprints but I learned early that external blueprints are the quickest way to ruin the game for me.
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> no blueprints carried forward between saves

I use exactly 3 exceptions between saves:

1. First generation ship to just get me to space

2. Second generation ship to get me to the other planets

3. Third generation ship to get me to the Shattered Planet

Everything else, I'm with you. I don't use blueprints between saves.

With how much of a pain it is to deal with building in space, I'd rather just use the same blueprint.

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Same. I do use blueprints (I usually make copypasteable smelters, circuit factories and whatnot) but only in the same save, all of them get chucked when I start a new save. And of course no copying blueprints from the internet at all.

So the first iteration of the design is always slightly wonky, so it remains fun :)

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I think that's a good rule. If there's something particularly tricky I will make a blueprint and carry it between games, but it's rare. And I only use my blueprints, with the exception of belt balancers (which I'm not smart enough to figure out). Using other people's blueprints is the fastest way to kill the fun in Factorio.
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I've been playing with Angel's Mods and Bob's Mods (and without Space Age) and it makes the processing chains dramatically longer. I finished the game by launching a rocket many hours ago, and now I'm just upgrading all the factory sections to make it a kind of mega-base. The minimum viable product you need to launch one rocket is nothing compared to making 1000 of everything per second. Then it might be done. I installed some more mods whose balance I was concerned about, only after launching the rocket.

So far I've only been using the world-specific blueprint storage. That seems reasonable to me - you have to make things at least once in this playthrough before copying them. That would happen anyway since of course all the factories are different with the mods. Except I imported a book of balancer blueprints from the internet because spending time designing inefficient balancers did not seem fun to me.

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You might be more into Terraria, Necesse, and Core Keeper. The excessive automation of Factorio as opposed to it being a compliment to a full game always turned me off it. Modded Minecraft with tech mods was fun because it was still Minecraft underneath. I could go explore and mine by hand and then feed my pulverizers ore when I got back to base. Core Keeper strikes a decent balance as well. You can automate some stuff but it's largely unnecessary and IMO not worth the time other than putting drills on the big ore boulders and sending the ore straight to a furnace. I still sort items by hand and then use the quick stack function after a trip, like I would in Terraria.
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I very much doubt the fun was found in the physical act of placing units. Instead I’d wager it was in the immediacy of the chaos, and correction of it, as you dealt with the smaller problems — and the micro-optimizations you could apply being involved with every minor detail of the system.

When you switch to blueprints, you move up the abstraction chain; there’s still some optimization in constructing blueprints but largely you’re now just plumbing… chaining together higher level components, simply ensuring inputs == output, and all the microoptimizations are hard to justify because they disrupt your blueprints. The patterns and structures have reduced to only what you’ve specified in your library (where previously you were discovering them out of the many operators the game provides).

But the literal act of placing objects wasn’t the point, yet that’s all the game has become.

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I've found that for me, I lose interest in a factory game the moment I have to scale up. It's when progressing through the game means copying an existing solution to a problem and pasting it (a bunch of times) somewhere else rather than coming up with new solutions.

In general, I get bored when I've figured out the solution to a problem but it takes a long time to get it implemented. Which is also why building conveyor belts is typically my least favourite part of any factory game and why I very rarely refactor my base.

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This is why I got bored of Dyson Sphere Program. Once you travel to other solar systems, all you get are resources that let you skip certain production chains. The proliferator spray then made direct insertion inefficient.

The planets in Factorio have new buildings, new mechanics, and certain resources are cheap while others are more scarce.

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I've played factorio since version 0.3 and modded Minecraft since 1.0. I've always lamented the points in any playthrough where a new feature makes the old way of doing things obsolete - but in Factorio in particular, it has never actually turned out very bad. There is always enough gameplay in the next abstraction tier that it hasn't made the game boring, although it does change what it is. The ladder starts when you get burner miners (extremely early) and you never have to mine by hand again. When you get electric miners you never have to refuel them by hand again. Those are already drastic gameplay shifts you experience within the first 20 minutes. It only keeps going from there - construction bots, solar power, logistics bots. The switch from handcrafting machines to having your factory craft them for you. Oil processing. Advanced oil processing. Trains. Power armour. Modules. Quality.

In Angel's Mods, much more than in the base game, there are so many of these points where your old factory process line is obsolete and your best option is to completely dismantle it and build the newer process you just unlocked, although the old one can keep running until you get around to that. It's a nonstop circus of redesigning and rebuilding. They haven't introduced any fundamentally new mechanics mind you - that all just comes from expansions in the set of recipes and machines available (and there's a reason every Angel's modpack includes Helmod). I've never tried Pyanodon's. Bob's Inserters also makes you want to redesign your layouts every time you unlock new inserter directions.

Part of the game is designing copy-pastable layouts that you can just repeat in a row, or tile in a grid - once you get to the stage where that's practical to do. You don't build each copy individually, you let your bots do it. If your bots can't do it then make it so they can, before you can say you're at this milestone. Also trains make grid patterns or "city blocks" very practical.

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> In general, I get bored when I've figured out the solution to a problem but it takes a long time to get it implemented.

Not a factory game, but the designers of Portal 2 talked about this. They noticed that in the first game there were puzzles where people would figure out what to do, but then get stuck on actually being able to do it, which was frustrating. So for the second game they endeavored to make it so that the challenge was always in the solution to the puzzle, never in executing the solution.

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Factorio is an unreasonably good metaphor for software engineering. I think what you experience is a simulation without a penalty for increasing entropy and complexity too much, something that isn’t possible in the real world: The more you tower up layers of abstraction and increase complexity, the more the failure rate increases, so you’re incentivised to actively lower it or avoid some approaches entirely. In addition to that, you’re bound by natural resources, and money, in a way that you are not in the game. Finally, and that might contribute to the drain: You’re solely responsible for maintaining all the abstraction layers.
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For pre AI software engineering yes.
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You're still responsible for maintenance post-AI and it's harder because now it's filtered through a slot machine.
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Imho it's wildly ignorant to call the current SotA coding agents a slot machine. They are extremely powerful tools.

My point was: I play Factorio for fun and it reminds of me of what programming was like before AI coding. In Factorio, all the automations you build are proper abstractions that you yourself actually designed.

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When I start a new game of Factorio, I want the run-around-and-chop-down-trees Minecraft-esque beginning to be over as quickly as it can be. I race to get bots and logistics going as soon as possible. Being limited to only building things that are near my character is something I find very tedious, and bots relieve that tedium almost entirely.

And that lets me focus more on the stuff that I do like to work on in the game.

Figuring out a universal assembler that keeps a list of mundane odds-and-ends in-stock. Working out that shipping from the bottomless seas of Fulgora to Vulcanus where oil is expensive can be a net positive, even though many assume that it must be a bust. Sorting out the unusual steel barrel management problems this creates. Tweaking asteroid collection, and conversion, and eventually working the kinks out of the huge space casino ships that start becoming essentially inevitable.

And the best part of those space factories: Once I have a design that is finished, I can copy and paste it. Replication is simple.

There's other parts that I avoid, like: Main buses. They're efficient, but I tend to lean towards organic spaghetti belts because that's more funner-er for me.

Or trains. I don't use them much. They're cool and all; they just don't usually scratch my itch. They promote vast expansion, but when interplanetary logistics and the space factories are going full-swing then my need to expand on any one planet dwindles considerably.

Lots of people play the game differently than I do and that's perfectly fine. Some people like to program in assembler, and some people might prefer to work in Python.

Others can't even get the syntax right. When they need software written, they can get help from a friend, hire someone to write the code for them, or (with enough of the right kinds of supervision) get a bot to do it instead.

Some people enjoy running around and chopping trees.

It's OK to operate at a very low level. It's also OK to work at a very high level. If the results are rewarding, then chances are good that they're doing it right.

(Anyway, the birds are singing again.)

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>Armed with my new library of everything and my auto-placement mod, I destroyed my enjoyment of the game, somehow.

it takes a very long time to build a library of everything now with the DLC. and then there are high quality overhaul mods with far more convoluted production chains.

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