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by kentonv10 hours ago |
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upvoteby patcon9 hours ago|
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I do appreciate that it's not explicitly anti-competitive, but as a biochemist who spent a lot of time thinking about living systems, I am a bit concerned about a budding ecology that has perhaps collapsed <3

But I do have a strangely high trust in the individuals involved (you, Ryan, Sunil, others), even though I am a bit perplexed by CloudFlare's incentives or economics

Which is to say: I am choosing to be optimistic :)

Caveat, am commenting before reading, mind you -- just my general reaction to mergers in a world that never cleaves :)

EDIT: though this has also probably deflated a lot of the good-faith conversations I was having with gov-adjacent Europeans about celld being a boon for the moment of heightened European sovereignty, where EU data residency isn't necessarily considered enough distance anymore.

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upvoteby mark_and_sweep9 hours ago|
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Who decided that the Deno runtime would be abandoned? Was this Cloudflare's or Deno's decision? And why?
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upvoteby rough-sea6 hours ago|
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It's a joint decision and I agree with it. I'm most invested in its success and have put the most work into it - and I no longer think it's where I can do the most important work. There are some good ideas in Deno and it's well engineered - but it ultimately is not solving big problems. It has been sucked into the gravity well of node compatibility, which forces it to behave exactly as Node does. Why reimplement Node? It works. Marginal performance or UX or security benefits are not enough.

I'm interested in building powerful new abstractions. celld has been working remarkably well, depending only on object storage for coordination and persistence. It is not just a slightly different API to interact with the file system or network - it's an entirely new model for server development. I wrote a bit about it here: https://x.com/rough__sea/status/2105853283617440032

We'll ship monthly releases for a year, and Deno stays MIT-licensed. If people want to carry it forward, I'd like that.

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upvoteby skybrian1 hours ago|
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You still need a runtime for your CLIs though. How does local development work for celld and workerd? Are you moving back to Node for that?
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upvoteby patcon8 hours ago|
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Maybe helpful context: https://x.com/rough__sea/status/2105853283617440032

> once you see it, you'll realize there's no point to traditional javascript runtimes in serving applications - only for build processes (eg bundling) and scripting.

I suspect he's come to the conclusion that the runtimes are now just a commodified build system that's been dialed in already, and the layer where celld sits is where the next unvalidated opportunities are

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upvoteby smt889 hours ago|
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I don’t know that many people reading this particular thread care whether this is a good business decision for Cloudflare.

Most of us are here because we’re curious what it means for Deno specifically and FOSS TypeScript runtimes in general, since Bun was also acquired.

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