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by coldtea9 hours ago |
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upvoteby jamesrr397 hours ago|
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For me Deno has a really nice security posture, the permissions model is just something I haven't seen in from other runtimes (JS or otherwise). There were other nice features (native typescript support, compilation to a standalone binary), but the permissions model was just unique.

https://docs.deno.com/runtime/fundamentals/security/

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upvoteby flanbiscuit7 hours ago|
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Which Node now has:

https://nodejs.org/api/permissions.html - since v20 - Apr 17, 2023

https://nodejs.org/learn/typescript/run-natively - stable and without a flag since v22.18.0 - which sometime after Apr 24, 2024 which was the v22.0.0 release

https://nodejs.org/api/single-executable-applications.html - Added in: v19.7.0, v18.16.0 but still in Active Development (not stable yet) - 2022

For reference, Deno was released in 2020 with all of these features from the start.

Feels like it always take some healthy competition for Node to make big strides like this. Like the whole io.js fork thing a long while ago.

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upvoteby oofdere5 hours ago|
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You can give permissions to Web Workers when starting them in Deno, which afaict Node cannot do.
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upvoteby 8n4vidtmkvmk7 hours ago|
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I didn't know node got that too but it says right at the start that malicious programs can bypass it. What's the point then?
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upvoteby genxy6 hours ago|
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The Docker of JS runtimes. Deno will get picked up by the community. But CF should sponsor it for at least 250k a year.
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upvoteby LunaSea7 hours ago|
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The security model has always been a half-baked afterthought. The initial versions were riddled with vulnerabilities .
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upvoteby CSMastermind8 hours ago|
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Like a decade ago I got into a huge fight with a Staff Eng at our company over Dart. I had just been put in charge of the company's architecture and one of the first things I did was migrate everything to TypeScript (which was relatively new at the time). He was so angry I didn't pick Dart. Good choice by me in retrospect (though picking Angular 2 over React not so much).
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upvoteby phatskat7 hours ago|
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I don't know enough about Angular 2 to know exactly how much of a bad choice that was, but my experience in React has always been "they should have used something else". I vaguely recall our lead backend being unhappy with his decision to do the original admin panel in Angular, but I chalked that up to him not being a frontender.

For context: I begrudgingly adopted Vue a while ago after finding React to be too unwieldy, and part of that opinion is definitely related to a poorly written Redux implementation.

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upvoteby rezonant3 hours ago|
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> though picking Angular 2 over React not so much

It sounds like you're coming at this from a perspective of popularity and thus access to engineering candidates with expertise in it which is fair, but speaking as someone who also went with Angular 2 over React during those times, I'm still using Angular and I'm very happy with it from a technical perspective. Yes, it does mean there are less options for hiring, but it has been a positive experience for my team and for me in my own projects to stick with it.

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upvoteby ZeroCool2u7 hours ago|
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It's really a bummer that Dart gets a bad rap, because of its early versions. The recent versions of Dart are a lovely language to work with. Pub is the only package manager I've used that approaches Cargo in quality.
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upvoteby p-e-w7 hours ago|
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All TypeScript competitors got out-engineered by Microsoft. It’s a triumph of experience over new ideas.

How well designed the initial versions of TypeScript were can be seen by how smoothly later versions were able to build on them, and even after so many major improvements the language has barely a wart (enums probably being the only one).

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upvoteby WorldMaker7 hours ago|
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namespaces are the other one, and that's a fun legacy because Typescript had to implement a half dozen module systems in the early days: no modules (jQuery-era globalThis pollution), AMD, UMD, CommonJS, SystemJS, Typescript's own which was proto-ESM inspired but not ESM, then Typescript's realignment with ESM.

Something of its own sign of Microsoft out-engineering some of the hiccups of the ecosystem as a whole. (I started using Typescript < 1 simply because it was the safest and easiest way to write AMD modules also with an eye to UMD or SystemJS output with just a compiler flag change if you needed to ship something compatible outside the house.)

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upvoteby darepublic3 hours ago|
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My dart story. While in college for computer programming our professor telling us if we wanted to get ahead of the curve start learning dart. It was the future
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upvoteby lenkite5 hours ago|
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> He was so angry I didn't pick Dart. Good choice by me in retrospect (though picking Angular 2 over React not so much).

1/3rd of apps on the iOS and Android app store use flutter and that percentage is growing over time. Whereas people are moving away from JS/TS frameworks like React Native.

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upvoteby galaxyLogic4 hours ago|
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I wonder if TS could evolve into a compiler whose output would use either Deno, Bun or Node? When the exe is compiled it no longer matters what libraries it uses underneath?
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upvoteby michaelsalim3 hours ago|
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Where is that stat from?
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upvoteby sysguest8 hours ago|
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well Deno was the only player who could have prevented recent npm security disasters:

built-in permission system for filesystems and etc

just forbid writing to important folders like ~/.ssh

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upvoteby limagnolia7 hours ago|
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But it is Open Source, so if said companies like Deno enough, all they have to do is pay for its continued maintenance and development. This is one major thing that sets Open Source apart from proprietary software.
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upvoteby jchw6 hours ago|
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> Do they also do their front-end in Dart?

Hey, you jest, but Flutter has a lot of traction!

(I conceptually like Flutter, but I can't get over the Dart thing, so I'm not part of that traction.)

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upvoteby maherbeg9 hours ago|
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Slack? I think some of their plugins API was all Deno based for a while.
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upvoteby chaosharmonic8 hours ago|
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Netlify and Supabase have also been using them for edge functions.
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upvoteby 0x6c6f6c8 hours ago|
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Given these two are both comparable to the Cloudflare developer stack that I often think of as alternatives, this makes the decision to let Deno die feel at least a bit more calculated.
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upvoteby chaosharmonic7 hours ago|
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I do wonder if it's been shopped around to any of these large-scale users as potential maintainers. Seems in the overall wheelhouse for Supabase in particular.
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upvoteby vmg129 hours ago|
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> Do they also do their front-end in Dart?

This is actually a good decision though.

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upvoteby Onavo8 hours ago|
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> Companies went all-in in a barely established niche player with 1/100 the traction, instead of sticking with Node, and even better an LTS Node, and are now surprised?

Wait till you hear about this thing called Bun.

Though with a tiny core team and almost carte blanche AI credits, they are a lot leaner.

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upvoteby locknitpicker6 hours ago|
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> Though with a tiny core team and almost carte blanche AI credits, they are a lot leaner.

Bun's release cadence dropped like a rock after the rewrite, in spite of the radical AI militancy and virtually infinite AI budget.

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upvoteby rwz3 hours ago|
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They shipped a metric ton of new features in 1.4 and it seems relatively stable enough that it doesn't require too much hot bug fix releases.
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