I feel like HOA fees have to be doing most of the damage there. AFAIK the highest property taxes in the US still top out around 2%, so for a "multiple thousands per month" property tax bill it has to be a house worth more than $1.2 million. I'm not sure what the line is for what level of housing expense is reasonable for society to subsidize housing security for, but I'm pretty sure $1.2 million is well past it.
I'm not taking a position here other than to say I don't believe there is a universally acceptable tax. Every tax I've ever read about or experienced personally, someone has made a valid argument for why it leads to a bad outcome or is otherwise unfair. You have to decide what gets priority, pick the system that matches that, and then be honest about where you're making tradeoffs and why.
The property was purchased with "after tax" money. So at purchase date the value was already taxed.
If one sells, and make a profit, we tax that profit. Why ask for a tax on the value of the property, each year.
There should be local taxes, and there are. To fund services and whatnot of course. But taxing a percent of the current value of a property is unfair as the owner may live in there with no intention to sell and potentially no revenue whatsoever.
And one value of property taxes (one that is dysfunctional on empty lots) is that it encourages "maximum" use of high value property (lots of bad particulars here, but the overall direction is about right). While we may dislike an elderly person being effectively forced out of the home they have lived in for decades, it is usually for more "productive" uses (for the market definition of productive).
As an example my in-laws have three properties in Hungary that are empty, and have been for quite a few years. Cumulatively they get something like ten weeks of use in a year. But since Hungary does not have property taxes there is almost no incentive to make better use of these properties (yes, they could rent them out for an advantage, but there is no disadvantage pushing them to sell).
Everything is unfair. The housing crisis is unfair. Young families struggling to afford a family home is unfair. Having to pay into a pension system you'll never get to use is unfair. Land and housing is different from personal property. There's only so much to go around and we'll have to share. A property tax is one tool to incentivize efficient allocation, and to drive prices down.
Sure this doesn't prevent issues if someone is stuck on savings/Social Security, etc., but it prevent surprises, such as a boom in your area causing sudden explosion of equity and taxes due.
The cap required it be your residency, i.e. you aren't renting it out and you are a citizen.
So even with the cap, it's more than likely the property tax costs a typical owner more than double what it did 30y ago.
Not a big deal if you bought at age 20 (unlikely) and still receive some work income. But if you are retired, it stings harder each year.
but you also have a much improved quality of life as a result of that property value going up, because theres more desirable stuff around
Why should I get to have that sort of externality on others just because I have more money than them?
You can also do this with combinations of renter protections + owner-occupier protections.
Currently the latter (whether the recent trend of red states lower property taxes, or Prop 13 in CA) is much more broadly-popular in the US than the former.
Property owners generally show pretty little empathy for anyone else wanting that security.
I go the other way: nobody should be forced out of their home because other people who have more money than them decide to increase the paper-value of their home. Something has to give between "I have a lot of money, I want this place" and "I was already here, I want to stay" and I think incumbency and stability is a better tiebreaker than "money wins."
The premise being that if property values change city-wide, property taxes don't, because property tax revenue only changes if the city's population does -- and if population increases then it's usually associated with new construction, so as long as the newly constructed units have a similar value per-bedroom to the existing ones, the amount you pay in property taxes doesn't change then either.
They could always borrow against their massively appreciated property, after all.
And why is being a Google Programmer "earning" that money, but a construction worker who spent 30 years paying off their house is an "unearned" windfall?
I understand that this doesn't fully solve the issue in that your friend, if to take advantage of this has to move, but it might be worth seeing if there are similar options around where she lives.
The taxman says not enough. I should borrow money I don't have or sell for a cheaper place just to cover for the state's inability to do with sales tax
Nah, the market is supply constrained, if taxes go down the price of the real estate just goes up to fill the gap. People make purchase decisions based on income & total expenses, not on anything else, "can I afford this house?". The price stops rising when the answer switches from "yes" to "no". If your friend can't afford a house right now they don't have enough buying power to compete in the market with other house buyers. Reducing taxes won't give them any advantage in the market that other buyers don't get.
If yes, then that means replacing their entire income once they’re no longer able to work.
If no, then something must diminish. That may include needing to relocate to a less expensive living situation. If we accept that disability means reduced means, then I don’t see why housing should be exempt from that as long as they’re not on the streets.
It seems to be equally straightforward an answer to just not expect homes to function as an investment.
I do not now nor have I ever understood why people expect homes to rise in value. If you live in an area for 20 years, and you enjoy that area, and it serves you well, and educates your kids, and the crime is low, and all that good stuff: why are you then owed money? Why is that a fair expectation? Like I could see it if you made the house bigger, or otherwise improved it? Maybe you put in a new shed, or a nice brick backyard area with a kitchen, sure. House being worth more makes complete sense. But if you just buy a house, and live in it, and maintain it over the years, and then go to sell it: why is it reasonable for you to expect money back out of that?
You've already received what you paid for: a place to live.
Like I just don't see how people go like "My house needs to sell for more than I bought it for years from now" and then complain about the housing market being out of control and houses being expensive. Of course they are. Each time a house changes hands by this logic, it must necessarily be worth more than it was before. So every subsequent buyer of that home is effectively required to tithe to the previous owner for... some fucking reason, that nobody has ever adequately explained to me.
Essentially everybody in the US is continually trying to make their fortune by picking a winner instead of adding productivity and value.
Have your house appreciate.
Pick the right stocks.
Invest in the right company.
Become a landlord in the right neighborhoods.
Everyone wants to be a genius speculator instead of doing work.
"Don't turn this into Manhattan" is such a common refrain yet turning it into Manhattan would wildly increase their land value.
Because getting the mortgage to buy the house involves parting with a large sum of money, after which some part of the mortgage payment goes towards something called principal. If it just goes towards interest, it may as well be rent.
Not to mention that when you try to sell the thing, there's some expectation by one or more third parties of some percentage of it.
Nothing in this gives any good reason for one to expect homes to appreciate in value, other than that some buyers want it to, and I haven't heard any good reason why those buyers shouldn't just be told, "no". If these people then decide not to get mortgages, due to it not being an investment, then all the better for everyone else, who want a home to live in.
Anyway, nowadays population is barely increasing so I guess property values… maybe they’ll keep pace with inflation (for whatever reason)?
Another possibility is that property values tend to go up and down as some areas become more fashionable. Maybe, for whatever reason, there’s a selection bias where we tend to associate ourselves the trajectory of people who lived in those fashionable areas instead of the unfashionable ones?
The land goes up in value when other people spend money. More retail is constructed nearby, transportation is improved, schools improve, jobs are created, etc. My land captures some of that value even though I paid nothing. That to me explains some of the fairness of property tax: the owner should contribute to the government services, such as schools and police, that help make the land appreciate in the first place.
Then there's the building. It's a wood box that sits out in the rain and rots. Water soaks in from the outside and pipes burst on the inside. Termites eat it and insects and vermin invade. Carpet and walls slowly degrade. HVAC systems wear out. Appliances break. Concrete breaks apart. Even on the land portion, plants die and need maintenance. (Trees are the only thing on a property that get better with time.) This building needs constant maintenance and I'm always spending money and time on it.
So I figure the land might go up slowly in value over time. I figure I'm lucky if the building appreciates at all after I consider the money I sink into it.
On paper my house is worth a lot more than when I bought it. But I don't know how much of that is nominal price change due to inflation.
Jesus it’s not rocket surgery. People want to live in a nice area, as more people show up and want to live in a nice area prices rise with rising demand accordingly. For the counter example, there are very large houses basically for free in Detroit. No one wants them.
Is that true, or do they actually come with large tax liabilities?
One idea here is deferral - if it's your primary residence the taxes are deferred until the property is sold to someone else. This way you won't get evicted but the locality/state can get the payment at some point. This is better than just charging a tax on sale as many countries do because it doesn't discourage transactions.
If you see that as inflated due to payback, then it's already inflated due to the yearly tax currently in place. Plus interest.