upvote
It's like Americans thinking thar what their president is doing is right. Nobody in there is doing anything to stop it.
reply
Let's hold this comment until after the mid-terms. The biggest thing Americans can do to stop Trump's war mongering would be at the ballot box. Protesting is one thing, but actively voting in people with power to stop POTUS would be the most direct action they can take.
reply
The majority of people don’t really care about the world, their country, etc.

They just care that they have what they need, that they don’t struggle too much in life.

In the US people will vote for whoever will make their life easier. To some degree there is morality/ethics/ideology but that’s usually grounded in something that effects you day-to-day

Examples from republicans: Keep out the immigrants or you won’t have a job. You don’t want trans people in the bathroom with your kid. Democrats are socialists which is morally repugnant (and will raise your taxes!)

From dems: republicans are trying to control women (reproductive rights), republicans will cut social programs, etc.

Nobody _really_ cares about wars in Iran, Ukraine, Gaza, etc aside from it effecting them at home.

(Really caring would involve donating, protesting, volunteering, etc — plenty of people talk/have opinions)

reply
Often, both are true. It's perfectly legitimate for anyone (Russian or otherwise) to have geo-political concerns (e.g. NATO expansion, Cuban missile crisis etc), but a Russian concerned about NATO expansion may also be very opposed to the extreme option of war as a solution.

War affects an ordinary Russian in very negative ways: the possibility of conscription (w/ risk of injury/death), complications for travel, sanctions on goods and services, and the economic opportunity cost (money wasted on war that could have gone to productive uses, plus reduced economic output due to drone strikes on yandex, wildberries, refineries).

reply
It was never about NATO and always about the reconquest of Ukraine. You can read their victory speech here [0]. Russia thought they would win easily and accidentally posted their victory speech too soon.

[0]: https://web.archive.org/web/20220226224717/https://ria.ru/20...

reply
Russia could fully integrate into EU/NATO if it really wanted.

That's just not compatible with ambitions of its corrupt leaders who want to be a root-level player, not "one of NATO countries". And I'm not sure how legitimate is prioritization of wants of corrupt leaders over well-being of your compatriots.

reply
Unsurprisingly, the same motivates the current crop of leadership in the US. They stopped teaching history in school I guess.
reply
They have asked to be a part of nato twice around 2000th and were both times rejected.
reply
NATO is not something you can just apply to on a whim. The path for a membership was there: e.g. there were some joint exercises, etc. Obviously they also need political integration as well.

Russia actually have been a member of Council of Europe (PACE, etc.) since 1996 but it was expelled in 2022. If they had a good record in Council of Europe they could really go for NATO membership eventually.

reply
Ok, about the path you describe: how can one join a military exercise without a prior green light for that? And speaking about the political integration: remember that Turkey is in nato, so it does not need more political integration than Russia had in early 2000th.

What happened is that nato realized that if Russia joins, it will loose the reason to exist (i.e. if the old enemy joins the alliance what is the need for such an alliance anymore?)

So nato bureaucrats understood that they will loose well-paying positions and rejected even initial talks.

reply
I think you misunderstood me, Russia _was_ on a path towards NATO in 90s to mid-2000s. There was cooperation, joint exercises, etc.

E.g. from a conversation between Clinton and Putin in 2000:

> Clinton: I am serious about being ready to discuss NATO membership with Russia. I recognize that domestic considerations inside Russia will prevent this for now, but over time Russia should be a part of every organization that holds the civilized world together.

> Putin: But I'll let you know that when I was asked about possible membership for Russia in NATO, I supported the idea.

Regarding "reason to exist", there's always a concern about Middle-East, China, etc.

Funny enough that you remember it was as "Russia applied but was rejected" but from this talk it's clear Putin is much less interested in Russia joining NATO than Clinton.

You can find full text here: https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/document/33393-document-3-memorand...

reply
Never ever that was a thing. There has never been any applications to have Russia as NATO member. What Putin was referring and had in mind was not exactly NATO membership but special treatment to Russia, that would allow using benefits of NATO, by not submitting to anything.
reply
I think a lot of Russians are misinformed as to what's been going on due to deliberate misinformation and propaganda from the Russian government.
reply
Conscripts didn't typically come from the lands around Moscow, but from the poor peoples who are very far away from wealth and power. For most there, it was only Ukraine's drone attacks that made them feel at war
reply
You seem to think it's justified.
reply
> but many seem to think it's justified - different thing

Literally no one thinks that. Look at the last election in Russia.

There were like 10 pro-Putin pro-war parties and one pro-Putin maybe-we-a-lil-bit-try-to-stop-the-war joke party. And that last party was banned from participating because of copyright infringement (they used fonts from Microsoft).

reply
That indicates that actions were taken to usurp absolute power, not that there is 0% support.

People there, from young age live with constant repetition of same soviet style messaging: “west is conniving and bad (and don’t forget - rotten); we won WW2; USSR was best in the world at X, Y, Z; Kiev Rus Vikings; inheritors of eastern Rome something…”.

Those messages are indistinguishable part of national (almost personal) pride, even for a lot of russian speaking people that currently live outside of Russia.

(If I would be raised in muslim family, I would be muslim; if I would be raised in russian info space, most likely I would support 3day operation to save Russian people from fashists)

reply
imagine if Putin had said... we are slipping behind the west. They are threatening us. So... we'll double down on research & education. We'll outthink them. We'll shift our economy into an economy that thrives in the future.
reply
Pretty much precisely what the US did during the Cold War. To do so, we had to outspend the Soviets, and by a LOT. But the world buying US treasury bonds was basically a credit card for us to finance the above things that result into the world’s strongest military.
reply