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> the consenst banner is required either way.

Consent is required. The banner is just one mechanism, but not required. A website could hold off on all tracking until a suitable point in the usage of the site (like creating a profile, for example) and ask at that point.

The banner is an artefact of the hostile way most sites choose to try and hoodwink the user into being monetised and ultimately to piss users off so much that they complain about the legislation rather than the lack of online privacy.

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And there was an initiative to include tracking preferences in browser HTTP headers, which never made it, as it was quite obvious that this would lead to a lot of people opting out.

Better to just harass them into a habit of dismissing the banner.

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Well DNT indeed did not made it, but there is global privacy control header that is nowadays required as explicit opt-out mechanism by CCPA and some other states legislation. I always implement support for GPC in my products.
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Never seen this offered to be set by any browsers, though.
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Firefox offers it: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/global-privacy-control

They don't seem to call it GPC, but their "ask websites not to track" feature now uses it instead of GPC.

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I wonder how many websites use that header as part of their fingerprint mechanism.
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Yes ok, and Firefox was also the only browser that offered DNT, which is why it pretty much died.
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It's the complete opposite. What killed DNT is Microsoft adding it to their browser and set it to true by default, pretending they cared about their users. Doing so, it was not the expression of the users anymore and so web developers ignored it, and so it died.
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Sorry, that does seem like a reasonable default. This is the fault of web developers to not respect it, not Microsoft. Nice cope.
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It died because companies had no incentive to respect it. The writers of the GDPR could have easily added a single line saying you had to respect the DNT header, but they chose not to.
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It's set on by default in "privacy browsers" like Brave or Zen, but off by default in most mainstream ones -- user needs to set it on explicitly via about:config
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There is also https://killthecookiebanner.eu/

if you write to your reps, they might just change that. The Eu is one of the few democracies left. Slow but powered by the people

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I dunno man, from an outsider's perspective I used to think that but it seems to slowly be getting worse with trying to shove through internet surveillance and corporate protectionism under the guise of "protect the kids". I guess sadly someone saw how unreasonably effective that can be in the US.
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When there is "legitimate purpose" there isn't reason to as soon items are put in the shopping cart this has to be tracked (be it session in url, cookie, local storage, ...) and no consent is needed.

The exact definition of "legitimate purpose" is unspecific (which is important to be able to adapt to development of new services) which leads to some lawyers being careful.

I also claim that some lobby groups promote having too many and too big consent banners to move blame from tracking companies to the EU ("stupid EU forcing all those banners!") in order to reverse the policy on tracking, which seems to have some effect.

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Legitimate interest definition is pretty narrowly scoped. Most of the sneakiness relies on nobody checking or enforcing it.
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You are confusing GDPR and ePD. Legitimate interest is GDPR legal basis for processing personal data (it has it's own requirements). ePD triggers when you read/store e.g. browser data and make it available via network. Consent is the primary ePD legal basis and the exception related to that is much narrower (strictly necessary for ISS provider to provide service requested by user).

Generally speaking JS code that makes request to server is covered by ePD while actually processing that request server side is covered by GDPR (there are some nuances to this).

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I know it's tempting to put this consent-banner anti-pattern all on toxic ad-driven platforms, because their motives are bad.

The problem with this view, though, is that even the very agencies propagating these rules do the exact same thing! You can go to any site from an EU arm and get the same banners.

At this point, you can't really blame it on bad-faith actors, you have to accept that it's a bad rule. Which is not to say I know a better one!

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And then you open the details mentioned in those cookie banners and see literally 600, 700 entities that get data about you shared by the website.

Malicious compliance is not the law-maker's fault.

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It's not even compliance. You're required to make consent and decline require equal effort. A large percentage of them make it much easier to consent.

Not to mention the large number of "legitimate interest" exceptions that are absolutely not justifiable.

The main problem with the legislation is its lack of teeth and enforcement.

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Is too. They could have thought through the law they were writing and predicted malicious compliance. Or written a stronger law. Or revised the law when they spotted malicious compliance.
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I don’t understand why that’s considered legal under GDPR. How can consent be express and informed when it would take 30 minutes just to identify each entity your data is being shared with?

In fact the law even specifies “no pre-ticked boxes” but every banner always has “accept all”. And it’s 50/50 to see “reject all” even though it is a requirement that denying must be as easy as accepting.

They should pay a bounty for reporting non-compliance.

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> In fact the law even specifies “no pre-ticked boxes” but every banner always has “accept all”.

That's not entirely true. Websites that don't actively try to fuck over their users (because their purpose is not shoving third party ads at you, it's providing information about/a platform for their company's product) often provide a modal with two buttons:

'Accept' 'Decline'.

This, IMO, meets both the letter and the spirit of the law. The funny thing is, for any website actually doing that, if you click 'Accept', your data will likely only be used to improve it.

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A 'cookie banner' I've came across recently (https://www.courthousenews.com/scotus-calls-for-redo-on-wash...) feels so bizarre yet arguably should be the standard.

> Global Privacy Control detected. Advertising cookies are turned OFF.

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> Global Privacy Control detected. Advertising cookies are turned OFF.

Yes, I love this. My browser is already sending "do not track" requests.

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I’m sure the Meta’s and Google’s on this planet will all faithfully honor our “do not track” requests.
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I'm sure if they had to by some EU directive, they would. Organizations that big can't conceal that, as they risk discovery findings and whistleblower activities.
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Only when the punishment for not complying is a certain (ever increasing) % of their revenue. And it is actually enforced.
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I'm getting a cookie popup floating thing myself with five options, "Accept all", "reject all", "cookie settings", "confirm my choices", and... "cookie settings" again.
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Sounds like you don't have the global privacy control flag set. In Firefox there's a "tell websites not to share or sell my data" flag. In Chrome you need to install an extension (such as an adblocker).
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I feel it's worth distinguishing between the Hacker News Audience that is highly tech-educated and security-conscious and the general public that just wants to use the web and seems more than happy to give all their data to Meta, Google & Co.

If you ask my 70-year-old mom to decide whether she'd like to allow the WebGL API, she'll go bonkers. If anything, the constant cookie banners have just trained her to consent to stuff out of muscle memory. You could probably design a "Are you ok to sign over the deed to your house" question in the rough shape of a cookie banner and get 90%+ agreement.

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My favorite cookie banner is on arstechnica.com:

> We Care About Your Privacy

> We, and our 228 partners use cookies and similar methods to recognize visitors [...]

228 partners should make anybody concious about the fact that something is wrong and you probably should not consent to that at all. Also, nobody cares about your privacy when they think sharing data with 228 parties is okay.

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I've seen some sites, mainly in the video game field, that have even higher numbers such as 750. Do I want to share my info with your 750 partners? Um, no. Typically I just leave the site.
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The typical wording is "We value your privacy". Which just means they think it's valuable and want a part of that pie thank you very much.
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I like that! "We value your privacy. At about $.0003 per data point."
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Yeah it’s absolutely how effective the industry psyop against that was

Or alternatively how weak the EU messaging was I guess

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it's hard to make yourself heard when your opponents have trillions of dollars hinging on you not being heard and also control the biggest communication channels.
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The banners were for those other cookies, often for affiliate marketing and needed permission or at least the appearance of state order
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I've never seen a consent banner for being fingerprinted even though I'm sure companies are fingering my prints in the background enough that my colon could become a national database.
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The EU/banner situation keeps confusing people because there are two different laws in play:

1) ePrivacy. the OG banner law. requires you to inform the user (but not consent, as I understand it) if you store data on a user's device. includes cookies, localStorage, indexedDB, etc. does not affect fingerprinting 2) gdpr. requires you to ask consent for any kind of user data processing, unless you can find another legal basis

eprivacy was about cookies, but forgot fingerprinting. gdpr was not specifically about cookies. but gdpr (or at least its past interpretation by the dutch privacy authority) didn't require consent for limited first party analytics.

which led to situations where you'd get the impression that you wouldn't need a banner for first party tracking using cookies .. well the gdpr didn't require it, but the older ePrivacy rules still did.

we still have the digital omnibus law package coming up which is supposed to simplify and resolve the overlap between the two above, and reduce banner requirements at least for SMB just analyzing their website visitors

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> does not affect fingerprinting

It does. The current version says "storing of information, or the gaining of access to information already stored, in the terminal equipment". Reading e.g. navigator.userAgent is information already stored in the terminal equipment. If you then use that in any way that gets communicated to remote server (e.g. directly or calculating some fingerprint) you read that information in manner ePD describes.

The directive itself has been transposed incorrectly in many jurisdictions. For example from what I understand the Dutch law added an exception (roughly "for obtaining information about the quality or effectiveness of a supplied information-society service, provided this has no or only minor consequences for the user's privacy.") which is not permitted under ePD. ePD exception list is exhaustive and the only other exception can be done via Article 15. The exceptions done via that are related to things like national security and certain criminal prevention/investigation.

Of course that then raises the issue on how you get invalid exception invalidated. I don't know Dutch procedural law well enough to answer that.

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That would be pretty narrow analytics to not need GDPR consent. No IP addresses or any way to uniquely identify a person.
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Consent banners are generally malicious compliance and designed to annoy.
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