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When people wonder about where all the productivity of LLMs is going to I think this is part of the answer.

There is no doubt everyone is far more productive with LLMs in generating code. However, a lot of productivity is going into things like that. Have you always been bothered by the limitations of Grafana? You can generate another dashboarding solution that works best for you. You know that deployment team that is so slow and annoying? Now you can generate your own deployment engine. Have you always hated how kubectl lets you manage one k8s cluster at a time? Now you can ask AI to generate fleetctl. You can start your project with DynamoDB, rewrite it to mysql, then to postgres, then to duckdb. Start with Python, switch to Golang, then switch to Rust. Deploy on AWS, then move to Azure, then move to a hybrid option then throw colocation in the mix. Don't like your source control? create a new one. Json is too limiting? Invent a hybrid JSON/HCL language. The browser sandbox is limited? Make a desktop app, make a language, make an OS, make a kernel.

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> However, a lot of productivity is going into things like that. Have you always been bothered by the limitations of Grafana? You can generate another dashboarding solution that works best for you. [...] The browser sandbox is limited? Make a desktop app, make a language, make an OS, make a kernel.

This is one of the core reason that I dislike the LLM hyping. People are just reinventing stuff and when you ask them, it's actually a very subjective reason. Ok, anyone can do what they want with their time, the issue is that they want people to follow in their steps.

Not saying that you need a novel idea to be worthy, but those random projects have no guarantees behind them other than some cursory testing. All software have bugs, but I can't interact with something that is randomly built.

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I don't see the problem.

I am one of those people that reinvents the wheels because external ones don't fit my use cases.

The fact I can now fork any software and do these changes I always wanted but had no time to is amazing to me.

I do not pretend to sell it or share it, as it is de facto void of any value whatsoever.

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> I am one of those people that reinvents the wheels because external ones don't fit my use cases

That’s OK, but I’ve yet to see someone articulating what exactly doesn’t work in the old product. It’s always “Let’s rewrite or reinvent 90% of it, then add a minuscule variation”. The variation may be interesting, but the reinvent is what’s make it untouchable as no one (including the author) has time to ensure things are right.

A patch or a plugin is ok, but not a whole new project with dubious claims.

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Why do you care, it's not like anybody's shoving it down your computer.
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I agree. I think if everyone doing that is doing it on their computer like you're then it wouldn't be a problem.

When other people start doing that to other teams at work, other people in open source, other people in professional settings, etc it becomes a problem for various reasons. The idea that I'm gonna gift you with a 75k lines of python to "just run it" and ask your agent to hack on it might be fine (who cares as you put it). Now scale that to 47 of such projects (a month)

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> Why do you care, it's not like anybody's shoving it down your computer

They are trying to get in every opensource projects, increasing the burden of maintainers. And once a ban is announced, they’re here protesting.

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I think the article would tend to agree with you, given its position on the reluctance of open sourcing and/or sharing the actual Scion software stack.

There's so much intricacy and subtlety in each organization and even individuals' environment being incorporated into tooling that expecting these tools to generalize at this point is perhaps an expired ethos.

I even see this in the tooling that I run in my own personal stack. Many projects are candidates for sharing, and I have nothing against it, but they incorporate such specificity toward my own environment, including things like hardware, that creating shareable and more generalizable projects from them adds more to the maintenance surface than I would care to support.

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Not a reply to TT, but I just saw your nick and thought I'd respond. We both commented on a thread recently, and your response was really insightful and just a pleasure to read; I didn't take the opportunity to respond there (locked). You should, like, write a blog, man. I infrequently wish HN had a "follow" feature, but this one of those times. Peace.

ref: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49768575

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That many commits in a day I wouldn’t call it engineering. That’s basically brute forcing.
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Its gradient descent all the way down.
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Recently a colleague of mine shown us a demo using a fresh model designing a building construction detail live, in minutes, which is a function that we struggled to bring into our construction design software due to resource limitations (and legacy barriers) for long. All this in the context of offsite constructions where the design can directly be exported to the right CNC machines in the factory, and arranged for delivery and assembly order. We have let ourself amazed, despite the controlled demo situation and the small detail, it was a remarkable performance. For a minute or so, but thinking further, why would the customers (construction design engineers) of our competitors flow to our legacy software full of legacy pitfalls they know about and have to live with when they can turn to AI for a fresh design solution themselves, just like we did? They know the context better than us anyway, just do not have time for bit-carving. Why would we have customers when customers of our customers can turn to an AI for a design that is buildable? I was consulting one model about a structural engineering detail, and it was quite well informed I have to say. From training data alone. I felt, maybe I need to rethink the rest of my career, that is not that long but still uncomfortably long for being predictable beyond a few years.

Well, things are not that bleak, probably, at least not for our customers. Regulations (accountability) and physical world matters still require them. But not us for our customers, not that much and not for too long. They tend to be the tech savvy folks eager to jump at adjacent domains when it saves them a percentage or two off the construction costs (not a small pile of money), and AI with its programming language of English and deep knowledge pool is not that big a jump from their standpoint. Our domain is pretty well formulated, regulated, documented, inherently built on do-check-adjust loops already. With a thing like AI it might worth to try making and improving a design solution in a second loop. But they also started to invest in robots already driven by software for their factories, AI might jump in there, and I wonder how much more until the regulations are forced to change by Super Intelligent (R) politicians for the sake of AI accelerated built environments (housing crisis, you know!), shifting the AI use further out towards generic population, wanting to order a new two bathroom condo for next Friday from Alibaba. The conservative construction business is a nuisance and obstacle in the way of modernisations anyway, go around it!

I will go to work tomorrow, and for some time, but the picture above feel less and less fictious with each passing day of AI news and usage.

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Originally I felt that there was going to be a reinvention of the wheel, until I saw the "shape" of software development changing, and the tooling needing to support the new flexibilities in positions and process.

Software development is not as much de-risking at the front like it used to be before building.

Now teams can build lots of stuff that works great, except it's the wrong things.

Most things are becoming the understand the problem "shape".

Understanding the shape of the problem isn't something LLMs can always make as.. svelte as early on.

Word generators gotta generate..

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> Now teams can build lots of stuff that works great, except it's the wrong things.

That used to be called "time wasting". If you want to build software that will be used, you need to interview the users. Maybe a few things does require research to nail things right. But most software are user-facing, the research side is about optimization.

> Most things are becoming the understand the problem "shape".

Then should we be so reluctant about "trialing" invented solutions. It's the same thing with most AI projects, they're trying to justify the project after the facts while being very reluctant to get user insights.

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We're trending towards just building the thing fast and getting feedback sooner on it. It's interesting to see end users actually trial a UI very early on instead of just being shown designs.
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In addition to that, solving for every approach to a problem to see what wins is also very interesting.

The key, still, is shipping far less, too soon, to minimize cruft.

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Time wasting is a definite concern - especially when vibe coding doesn't see the impeding brick wall(s) it's about to hit.

Vibe coding can be kind of a new type of cowboy coding. It could can be harnessed productively if done mindfully.

Interviewing users is critical, more importantly solving problems worth that people are lining up to pay to have solved before writing a line of code is critical.

Trialing solutions is always worth learning from, I usually ask about the problem that lead to building it. Sometimes that can be too narrow or vague of a story and you can learn how much of it is a solution looking for a problem, or vice versa.

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