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> This is just what banks do…

Sure. Sometimes they cause global financial crises as part of that process.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_financial_crisis

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Yes, and sometimes they turn Tulips[0] into value stores. Or GPUs for that matter[1].

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania [1] https://nvidianews.nvidia.com/news/nvidia-partners-with-apol...

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No but like this is how money supply works.

Loans are sold off, which means that they can raise more money to make loans. Each time you do that, you create more money out of thin air, which is profit.

The problem is, it only works if everyone believes.

THe problem with 2008 is that people stopped believing and demanded banks settle immediately. which then meant that they needed to raise cash, which meant looking at their assets, which meant looking at the risks of those assets, and then it went to shit.

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People stopped believing because people stopped paying their mortgages.
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That’s true, but before you try to shift the blame onto the homeowners, remember that these mortgages were intentionally issued to extremely risky borrowers, and then that risk was intentionally obfuscated when the loans were collateralized. The fault cannot be laid entirely on the borrowers, which is what I sense you’re trying to do here.

Investors bought a lie packaged by the financial institutions. They shouldn’t have believed in the first place because the risk was junk-level but not sold as such.

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You might as well say that banks giving mortgages caused that. Sure it happened as part of the process but that wasn't the thing that caused the problem.
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No, banks collateralizing mortgages caused it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collateralized_debt_obligation

> In the early 2000s, the debt underpinning CDOs was generally diversified, but by 2006–2007—when the CDO market grew to hundreds of billions of dollars—this had changed. CDO collateral became dominated by high risk (BBB or A) tranches recycled from other asset-backed securities, whose assets were usually subprime mortgages. These CDOs have been called "the engine that powered the mortgage supply chain" for subprime mortgages, and are credited with giving lenders greater incentive to make subprime loans, leading to the 2007–2009 subprime mortgage crisis.

It's hard to ignore the similarities.

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No, to be more specific, banks selling the collateralized mortgages that were subprime in risk as if they were prime and these risk ratings being accepted at their word and via collusion with the ratings agencies is what caused this.

There is no issue with collateralized debt as long as the risk is properly assessed, the whole point of securitization is that you can take on higher risk for higher reward of an asset that was previously just one single piece of risk.

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This is correct.

The nuance here, though, was that the CDOs and similar instruments were sold in a tranched fashion, and the super-senior tranche was made to look as if it was very low risk, as normal for tranches instruments.

But when your entire series of tranches all consists of trash, then which tranche you were in didn't really matter.

CDO and CDO2 instruments hid this distinction really well, and unfortunately the ratings agencies bought into it and sold crap as AAA securities.

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This is an oversimplification. It is straightforwardly correct that, for any imperfectly correlated basket of assets, the senior slice will be safer than the junior slice. If you hold the most senior 10% of a basket of mortgages, 90% of those mortgages would need to default for you to start taking losses. That is rare in any context and in fact there is a good bit of evidence that AAA-rated mortgage-backed securities didn't actually do all that badly in the 2008 crisis: https://www.nber.org/papers/w24509

There were a lot of factors that contributed to the 2008 crisis: adverse selection leading to low quality portfolios, mispriced assets, high leverage which magnified losses, lower-quality securities being held by investors who couldn't really afford to bear the losses on them, etc. But the fundamental concept of tranching is not actually that bad, even though every time people read about it they think it's the exact same as 2008. Banks have been tranching debt since long before 2008 and they have been tranching debt ever since. Not just mortgages either, but all kinds of debt.

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> unfortunately the ratings agencies bought into it and sold crap as AAA securities.

It's very hard to understand something when your salary depends on you not understanding something.

They just kept the music going, more ratings issued was more money for them. Paid by the bank creating the security, what could go wrong

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> subprime in risk as if they were prime

What if this winds up being the case for the trillions dumped into AI in hopes of future revenues?

https://www.reuters.com/business/oracle-corp-goes-high-stake...

> Cloud computing giant Oracle Corp is on the cusp of a junk-grade credit rating and its shares have tanked as the artificial intelligence hyperscaler becomes the fall guy of investors' concerns over the sector's debt-fuelled spending binge.

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Honestly, that would be more like the railway mania in the 1840s or, really, insert any "Panic of X" here. Speculative mania has been a thing for centuries and will continue to be a thing for a centuries.

The specific problem of the 2008 financial crisis was that the banks were going out of their way to obfuscate the source of their CDOs so that, even when it was clear in 2007 that the subprime mortgage market was unraveling, you couldn't look at your instruments and figure out whether or not you were affected. The problem wasn't the CDO, it was the obfuscation. And as far as I'm aware, the current debt offerings aren't being obfuscated--if you want to avoid the data center debt because you think it's junk, just avoid the stuff being touted as data center debt.

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> The problem wasn't the CDO, it was the obfuscation.

yes, i specificly remember when Lehman went under the banks stopped trusting each other's ability to assess their own exposure. The banks stopped lending to other banks and that's when Paulson got on his knees (literally, i think there's a picture of him on his knees in front of Nancy Pelosi) asking congress for cash to guarantee loans. The side effects started squirting out everywhere i think even Mcdonald's was hours away from bankruptcy because the corporate paper market suddenly ceased to exist. Also, money market returns turned negative briefly, that's like a negative interest rate on a traditional savings account bad. It was bizarro world for maybe 72hrs.

The movies don't really do justice to just how upside down and nonsensical the financial world became. It was a knife's edge for 2 or 3 days.

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One complication this time is that the picture is reversed. Both the executive branch and Congress have massive incentives to keep the music playing. Nobody is going to have to beg Mike Johnson to step in, as he'll happily do whatever the White House says. Yes, there will presumably be a new Speaker after the election, but how much will that matter?

My fear is that this is all going to turn into one big front-running exercise where those connected with the Trump crime family are warned to get out first, banks that swear allegiance are bailed out next, and the rest of us get to hold the bag.

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Is the risk on AI debt properly assessed?

Are these companies worth their incredibly high valuations?

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> There is no issue with collateralized debt as long as the risk is properly assessed

Yeah... maybe think on that a bit in this context.

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It’s also hard to ignore differences. Bubbles gonna bubble, but the consumer is quite healthy this time around. Burry being short doesn’t make it 2008.
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> the consumer is quite healthy this time around

Inflation's way up. Real wages are down.

https://www.nytimes.com/2026/10/14/business/economy/inflatio...

> Wage growth has remained relatively muted over the past year. That, combined with higher inflation, means Americans are earning less for an hour of work. Average hourly earnings, adjusted for inflation, fell 0.5 percent in September, and were down 0.7 percent from a year earlier. It was the sixth straight month of year-over-year declines in real earnings.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/household-debt-delinquencies-ri...

> The share of seriously delinquent auto loan balances has hit a record high this year, while nearly 13% of credit card balances are seriously past due — close to their 2010 peak in the aftermath of the housing crisis — according to recent data from the Federal Reserve Bank of New York.

https://www.cnbc.com/2026/10/09/american-debt-delinquency.ht...

> The ability of U.S. families to stay current on their debts worsened over the past three years, hitting levels not seen since the aftermath of the global financial crisis, the Federal Reserve reported Friday.

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> Wage growth has remained relatively muted over the past year. That, combined with higher inflation, means Americans are earning less for an hour of work. Average hourly earnings, adjusted for inflation, fell 0.5 percent in September, and were down 0.7 percent from a year earlier. It was the sixth straight month of year-over-year declines in real earnings.

Where are they getting this data? This directly contradicts their claim:

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LES1252881600Q

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https://www.bls.gov/news.release/realer.nr0.htm

> Real average hourly earnings for all employees decreased 0.5 percent from August to September, seasonally adjusted, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics reported today… From September 2025 to September 2026, real average hourly earnings decreased 0.7 percent, seasonally adjusted.

Your chart appears to be weekly earnings, not per-hour wages. Having to pick up more shifts or a second job to make ends meet supports the point, in my book.

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Another factor in that case was that the government regulated, in some cases, the ratings of bonds that entities were allowed to buy (they couldn't be as highly levered with lower rated bonds) and so there was an incentive for bond ratings to be falsely inflated, happily carried out by the rating agencies. Of course collateralized junk is still junk, and many people at the time knew that, but there was money to be made in looking the other way.
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The cause is always a failure of underwriting. That was true of the Savings and Loan Crisis, the Great Financial Crisis.

It feels like each bubble gets bigger.

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> It feels like each bubble gets bigger.

Well you would expect that given that the market keeps getting bigger and the money in circulation keeps getting bigger.

Inflation alone means each bubble should be bigger than the last all other things being equal.

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Adjusting for inflation, though, things also can happen faster now than, say, thirty years ago, and there's more centralization in quite a few industries.
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> Adjusting for inflation, though, things also can happen faster now than, say, thirty years ago, and there's more centralization in quite a few industries.

Not sure its just related to centralization, probably more so that information can flow more freely now, but I fully agree.

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And for this one when insurance companies are forming syndicates because their underwriting becomes greater than any one company, it just sounds frightening, the sound this thing is going to make when it finally pops.
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I reacted the same. What could be a bad sign though is if they try to sell it and they dont get what they want.
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yeah, either they discount it enough to look worthwhile to someone, or they keep it and take the risk. Risk assessments are inherently subjective, so both parties can think they're making a deal.

>We lent £1,000 to John Sozzleby at 10%. We quantify the risk level as “iffy”, which is 42.6 qualm points above "dodgy". and are willing to sell you the debt for £700. its a great deal!

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This is what a lot of, if not all, IPOs are for too.

Lots of names to obfuscate the same financial yada yada.

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|This is just what banks do O_o underwrite loans, then collateralize (i.e. bundle) to people who want the risk.

... and from the linked piece ...

| Banks do not sell down debt they are confident in

... I have no claim to expertise but both of these can't be true.

I wouldn't worry about it anyway, you can be sure when the day comes "they'll be to big to fail".

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The next sentence in that article is:

> They sell down debt when they are worried about concentration, which is exactly what "approaching internal limits" means in plain English: too much of this bank's balance sheet is now one bet on one sector holding up.

Which is correct, but kind of weird because being confident in a credit and being worried about concentration are not really mutually exclusive things. You can be pretty confident in an investment but not want it to constitute a majority of your portfolio. (Bankers know that even very strong credits are never 100% guaranteed to pay out.)

Let's say I offered you the chance to pay $100 to get $120 back if at least one coin toss in five came up heads. That's a pretty good bet, right? But would you bet your house on it?

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yes just like mortgage backed securities in 2007
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Next thing you know, they're going to take the money in your savings account lend it out to anyone who asks for a loan!

/s

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