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> The most I'd grant is that everyone uses AI secretly as a sort of dark forest problem.

The dark forest hypothesis is that we can't find any alien life because it's dangerous to broadcast your existence and location to competitors. So rational thing for every alien civilian to do (and arguably for us) is to keep quiet.

But what does it mean in this context?

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I'll try: It's dangerous to broadcast your AI use to competitors, users and the public for fear of being attacked.
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It's "sort of" a dark forest problem because admitting you're using AI is socially risky. Indeed, this entire thread is built on the idea that Epic's lazy use of AI has been bested by the savvy & righteous programmers at Valve[1].

So people who think AI is actually a really useful tool and that using it to make your project better will imagine that everyone who makes things better today uses AI at least a little, and assumes they don't talk about it because they don't want to get yelled at. Meanwhile, if you think AI does bad work (or is often used badly) you can ascribe bad software to bad uses of the tool. We can never know for sure because people don't talk about it.

[1] I happen to agree with this dichotomy but that belief precedes AI

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> I also wouldn't buy it for a second that Valve engineers aren't using AI, especially for something as trivial as "hey claude rank the top causes of slow startup" -> "oh okay now fix". The most I'd grant is that everyone uses AI secretly as a sort of dark forest problem.

This is probably the saddest comment I've read on HN. It really shows the state of this place and how far into psychosis the comments have fallen.

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Yeah exactly, Valve engineers probably just told AI to make it faster.

Your "dark forest" analogy sounds reasonable but Epic's outright admission of "vibe coding" is a bit of a footgun considering how rabidly anti-AI the folks on sites like Reddit are. If they had just been like, "it's faster and supports Linux" they would be the darling of the internet.

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Epic Games wants to make an "AI-first" game, so they need to push "vibe coding" onto the gaming audiences to get them to accept it before they lay off people and ask $69 for a game where the art is made by an AI model.

https://bsky.app/profile/jasonschreier.bsky.social/post/3mxp...

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> I also wouldn't buy it for a second that Valve engineers aren't using AI...

I don't see why not. They clearly know what they are doing at Valve, and for an engineer who knows what he's doing, LLMs are of very limited use.

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I know a few very serious and well compensated programmers with decades of experience. These people work on prominent open source projects, climate modelling, linear programming, large org enginneering. Every single one of them uses LLMs heavily and swears by the increased productivity of using them.
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AI sycophants are tiring.
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You might not like hearing it, but it is true.

Code has never been the bottleneck for a skilled engineer, and if you value high quality then you need to spend a lot of time reading over the slop LLMs produce to turn it into something hardened and reliable. So, for a skilled engineer, LLMs have a very marginal benefit in terms of delivery speed.

This is backed up by LLM productivity studies.

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> They clearly know what they are doing at Valve

Yeah, at promoting child gambling. Not sure about games

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They literally just shipped a massive update for a game they've been developing for several years (Deadlock) and are releasing more content for it this Friday
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Do you think Deadlock will not devolve into a mixture of gambling and hvh like every Valve multiplayer game that’s been relevant in the last 10 years (except Dota because hvh in dota sounds complex, so it's just gambling there)?

Fortnite avoids this by having no gambling and by making hvh infeasible FYI

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