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by wewtyflakes15 hours ago |
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upvoteby 171862744014 hours ago|
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The were several other train accidents, where it was found out, that the drivers have made races, who can stay above the speed limit longer. But I think that was already in the 90s. There is/was definitely something at fault with the safety culture.

But there was a recent incident in Germany as well (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burgrain_train_derailment), which is somewhat similar to the earlier accident in Spain this year. Targeting high value projects, while not paying for proper maintenance is not something that only happens in a single country.

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upvoteby ricardobayes5 hours ago|
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There were two fatal train accidents in the UK this year, one of them being a rear-end collision, despite no one even citing them in this thread, and definitely not claiming the UK having low safety culture. Sadly the Spanish "black legend" is still very much in force, portraying Spain as some lower place than it actually is.
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upvoteby wewtyflakes14 hours ago|
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Yes, you can say that high-speed rail crashes are not limited to one country (though Spain has had multiple this year alone), but you can't say that it has ever happened in Japan. So for you to argue up and down this thread that everyone calling out issues with Spanish high speed rail safety is wrong, as if it is some sort of intractable problem, is bananas.
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upvoteby 171862744014 hours ago|
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I have not stated anything that is specific to Spain in this thread? I do think there is something wrong with the safety culture in Spain, I mean obviously, there was an accident.

> but you can't say that it has ever happened in Japan.

That sounds very unlikely to me, and in fact Wikipedia indicates otherwise: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shigaraki_train_disaster

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upvoteby wewtyflakes12 hours ago|
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That is not a high-speed rail line... so, no?
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upvoteby 171862744012 hours ago|
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Ok, so railway safety for me doesn't stop at the end of high-speed lines. But, maybe Japan does indeed clear the measure you suggested, so congratulations to Japan, I guess?
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upvoteby wewtyflakes12 hours ago|
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Yup, so it seems that high-speed rail safety is not an unsolved problem. Wonder what the lessons are? Hmm...
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upvoteby 171862744011 hours ago|
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"Sadly" anything involving safety with humans is never a solved problem, because safety culture needs continuing training and effort.
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upvoteby wewtyflakes11 hours ago|
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> I said nothing about "throwing up out hands", this is a current research topic. But you can hardly blame the workers for not using a system, the researchers haven't invented yet.

This you? Who's fault is it then? You said the tech doesn't exist (lets take that at face-value for the sake of your argument), so then if not tech, then what? You're just left with people. So are you saying it is their fault or not? Or is it just nobody's?

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upvoteby 171862744010 hours ago|
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Yes. General safety culture. However asking who is at fault instead of asking how to prevent it from occurring again, is also an indication of a lack of safety culture.

In addition: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50297950 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50293093

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upvoteby wewtyflakes8 hours ago|
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You can do both
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upvoteby eldaisfish15 hours ago|
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indeed. Japan is a compliance and shame based society. that alone is the foundation of a very strong safety culture, something that southern europe is famous for lacking.
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upvoteby 171862744014 hours ago|
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> that alone is the foundation of a very strong safety culture

It's a mixed bag. That can also cause safety violations, they were suicidal incidents, because punctuality is placed over safety, in Japan. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amagasaki_derailment

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upvoteby naranjito11 hours ago|
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The train to control center calls leaked, and they not sound like aircontrol talk we have heard latelly, more like "meh, paperwork". People! You are handling multi-ton things capable of going faster than 300 Km/h.

Japan railway crew have stricter procedures when they are alone: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointing_and_calling

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