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> local modes don't go away

On current GPU hardware/firmware... The cynic in me imagines in the future GPU vendors wanting to implement only loading signed weights to your card, aligned with your "subscription level", for your "safety".

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But the GPU vendors won't really have an incentive to do this - artificially restricting their customer base? Unless they and the hyperscalers all collude to cartel the market of course!

This is why it's so important to have more than one hardware vendor. The bigger the ecosystem, the harder it is to cartel. I cant believe it, but i am pinning my hopes on china to break through with commoditized chips and hardware.

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You don't need bigger or better models. Current models are more than adequate for any task.

The key thing is tool use.

The model is fixed but tool use introduces new information into the system, so once you have a model that is good enough to effectively use the full suite of tools available (debug, test, profile, etc) and write code to effectively combine them and synthesize their results for a particular task, there is nothing that it can't solve.

New models are continually ingesting new information from usage, and embedding the results from people running this process back into the base model, which makes it more efficient, gets more things right the first time, etc, but there is no step gap in functional outcomes left.

Computing and programming are a limited domain with a small fixed set of constructs that can be applied in an infinite number of combinations. Nothing ever closes the gap between the ability of the model to automate the assembly of these constructs and the necessity of expert human direction to pick what system to build out of the infinite range of possible systems.

Frontier models can keep producing very expensive one-shot demos to pitch to investors but they are never going to replace engineers.

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But there is still the risk with qwen that they upload your private data to their homecloud. The model, not the agent!

I also switched to local qwen recently, but have to block such outgoing requests.

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I think the future should be efficient quantization which can make model with the same level as Qwen 3.8 27b now accessible from our laptop.
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This is mostly a memory bandwidth issue. Qwen 3.8 27b and the related Bonsai 2 27B run on my M5 Max laptop with 36GB of ram. It’s a little slow due to my specific model having lower memory bandwidth than higher end models with more ram and cores. MoE models perform better here and expert streaming engines can allow larger than memory models to run.
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Multiple teams and efforts are now making Qwen 3.8 27b work much faster on Mac and CUDA and the inference speed is doubling almost every week. There's now ongoing competition about who will make it work faster with exactly the same byte output at https://mlx.fast . TensorFold is the project to follow.
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So it's not about the model (eg TensorFold/Qwen3.8-27B-MLX-4bit) it's about the inference engine?
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The future is already here :)

These 3bit ISTA quants of qwen are supposed to be 95% as accurate as the full model and runs moothly on laptops:

https://huggingface.co/ISTA-DASLab/Qwen3.8-27B-GSQ-RCO-GGUF

There are multiple independent tests of this on YouTube.

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They aren't "Just as accurate". What you see with these quants is the providers only ever show performance on already saturated benchmarks. You'll see labs put out 1-bit quants Deepseek v4.1 claiming only 1% degradation because they're only showing the benchmarks which tell that story. Then you look at the performance on those same benchmarks for significantly weaker models like Qwen3.8-27B even and it's virtually the same because that benchmark is saturated.

I like these quants as much as the next guy when they're all I can run but I have both R9700 with 32GB VRAM and a 5060 Ti with only 16GB VRAM and so I run both Q6 Unlsoth quants and ISTA IQ3_XXS quants and yeah there is an absolute world of difference in realworld performance.

IMHO I think it's pretty scummy behavior from the quant providers to frame these quants this way. Just be honest about where the degradation is really occurring on the non-saturated benchmarks.

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This is a really good point that goes the other way as well. Some use cases are great for smaller and cheaper models, but it's not obviously when that's the case so I can bank the savings.
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All I know is that Strata and these models are the most I have ever gotten out of my machine. I get 70 t/s on a standard gaming rig 9070 XT / 5900X / 64 GB DDR4 @3400.
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I don't know, it hallucinates quite badly - confuses js with python.
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Apparently the ud-q4_k_xl version of qwen 3.8 27b is quite better than the q3 and not much larger. At least per r/localllama. (I'm also trying to find a good local model).
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Its possible (though very hard to do well, and needs a fair bit of compute) to improve the local models we have, too. Continued training is possible as time goes on.
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>The nice thing is that current local modes don't go away.

Given pace of advance I'm not convinced this is a winning strategy. The models of today (open or not) are way smarter than those of a year ago.

...so we really do need open models to keep pace, not just be statically competitive at a given point in time

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Even if Deepseek v4.1 is the last open source LLM I have access to, I would be perfectly fine with that. My secret is that I have this relatively unknown technique for solving problems where I use this quantum engine that developed from just atoms over 4.54 billion years into the most sophisticated machine in the known universe. It's a frontier model that every human has access too, actually.

So when I really want to solve a problem, I just think on it. And when I need something to iterate through the things I thought of quickly, I use deepseek.

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> Even if Deepseek v4.1 is the last open source LLM I have access to, I would be perfectly fine with that.

Your quantum engine aside, current open-source LLMs will not age well. They have a knowledge cutoff. If you ask them five years from now about something that didn't exist when they were trained, chances are they won't be able to provide a useful answer. They may still be useful for many applications, but their value will eventually deteriorate. Having continuous access to up-to-date open-weight LLMs is therefore about much more than simply having access to "better" models.

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we will soon figure out how to update the engrams with new information
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Yes, but first we need to figure out how to collect that new information. An efficient and ruthless data harvesting in one of the LLM labs secrets.
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Yep, fully satisfied with DS 4.1 Flash or GLM 5.3 Flash. I prefer using one chat at a time, actually thinking through things with it, as opposed to the YOLO run all night multi-agent thing. I mean I’m still okay with subagents if my main thread needs to explore a few options and then report back, but all on the same idea.
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You might enjoy Cecli, the successor to Aider. It's made for the kind of workflow you are describing (full hands off yolo and recursive sub-agents also an option, but not the default)

cecli.dev

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How are you running these? Not locally, I assume?
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For this benchmark i 've been using OpenRouter. If you have enough RAM or you can ssh a cloud shell this intro https://memdoor.ai/docs/open-weight can work too. I have reached with the ssh door a Google Cloud Box where the 27B model ran with an L4 g2-standard-16. A inference engine server is setup easily with memdoor (https://github.com/guregodevo/janis) on any CPU or GPU box. Ideally i think we need a quorum of SSH boxes like this, distributed that you can ping with a mention such as @box:coder. It's WIP . Any suggestion for running a team of workers in remote machine is welcome. I'd like to find a cheap solution.
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The thing here for me is not that I’m unable to solve problems with my brain, it’s that I value the automation in labor provided by coding agents. I do not want future advancements to be locked behind proprietary doors.
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I agree with that but the cat is out of the bag now. Unless you believe in exponential improvement (which I don’t), the open models might be at a resource disadvantage, but that doesn’t mean that they can’t catch up or surpass the closed ones. Throwing money at a problem doesn’t guarantee success.

I mainly just want to point out the value of human ingenuity coupled with a model like DS4.1 is technically enough to get most people to where they want to go, and that includes smarter open models.

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Then you probably don't want to be funding the companies that want and intend for it to be locked behind proprietary doors.
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You say that now, but you don't know what the future models will be capable of. If models get ridiculously good, you might not be perfectly fine with that.
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I think at that point I’ll be doing carpentry instead of computing.
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How do you run DS 4.1 Flash if your computer isnt powerful and everything?
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It can run on one strix halo machine, which is what I have. For everything else, there’s a vibrant community brute forcing more efficient engines and quantizations. There’s a minimum bar right now, so it depends on your hardware.
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you have 5k$ of ram in a strix halo?
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I bought my box for $3k last year because I hadn't updated my PC since the first threadripper 1950x, and the Strix Halo is the only x86 with unified memory that's optimized for the kind of CPU intensive stuff I do, and they finally have proper AVX512 too. It was the perfect upgrade for me (except for lack of PCIe 5 & ECC), which coincidentally happened to be perfectly positioned for local inferrence.

and I liked it so much (and saw that the RAM drought was going to last for at least a few years) so I bought a second one to use as a general server for myself and my family.

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The fact that you point to the latest model as „I’d be fine with that“ proves my point.

If expectations were static you’d be fine with qwen 2.5…but nobody sane says that today.

It’s a moving target thus we need open weights to move

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I’m all for local models and getting away from Anthropic/OAI but Qwen 27B might as well be a horse drawn carriage compared to a 2026 Porsche. Like, I guess it’s useful if you had nothing better but acting like it’s comparable to anything the frontier models have is just disingenuous.
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disagree, it’s absolutely comparable. but an m5 max is where it shines. and there are 50 flags to finetune with llama server before you get it right. i do prefer llama server over mlx currently on mac as well.
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What, I run it on 2 H100`s with vLLM and this is where it really shines. It's about half as good as Sonnet 5.5. On a small m5 max I can only assume trouble.
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It’s so poor for most tasks that you’re faster doing it manually.

DeepSeek and GLM are useful, though. Even the flash variants.

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I have all three and you're not going to convince me of that.

Side-by-side Qwen 3.8 27B is ~6x as fast as DS4 and GLM 5.3 and faster than that if you get the speculative engine set up properly. That means you can iterate very rapidly on the same problem and for many problems this is the way to solve them. DS4 and GLM 5.3 shine when Qwen would take too many turns to solve something, they simply have more world knowledge and seem to home in on possible solutions faster in #tg but slower in wall clock time. If a particular problem is within striking range of all three then Qwen will usually be the fastest solver by far.

It also depends on how good your prompt is, whether you are setting up points for guidance or whether you expect everything to be solved in a single shot.

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> Side-by-side Qwen 3.8 27B is ~6x as fast as DS4 and GLM 5.3

Wow, that sounds like a lot! Do you use/mean the regular models or flash variants here?

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Specifically:

  5257408 DeepSeek-V4-Flash-0731-UD-Q8_K_XL-00001-of-00005.gguf
  49215492960 DeepSeek-V4-Flash-0731-UD-Q8_K_XL-00002-of-00005.gguf
  49700372160 DeepSeek-V4-Flash-0731-UD-Q8_K_XL-00003-of-00005.gguf
  49466495968 DeepSeek-V4-Flash-0731-UD-Q8_K_XL-00004-of-00005.gguf
  13481997024 DeepSeek-V4-Flash-0731-UD-Q8_K_XL-00005-of-00005.gguf

  49842093280 GLM-5.3-Flash-Q3_XL-3.86bpw-00001-of-00004.gguf
  49644428576 GLM-5.3-Flash-Q3_XL-3.86bpw-00002-of-00004.gguf
  49653319264 GLM-5.3-Flash-Q3_XL-3.86bpw-00003-of-00004.gguf
  5694702080  GLM-5.3-Flash-Q3_XL-3.86bpw-00004-of-00004.gguf

  20437336576 qwen3_8_27b.ninfer
The GLM Quant is ~4 bpw, the DS4 is a Q8 and ninfer one is an NVFP4/BF16 I think. I run the ninfer one with ninfer-4090 on a hacked card with 48GB of VRAM. Max context for that one is 256K, DS4 has a 1M context and for GLM 5.3 it is 300K. The big models use all 8 GPUs.

Qwen benefits in two ways: all of the VRAM is on a single GPU so there is no communications other than generated tokens and new activations, that gives pretty good utilization for the card, the second is of course simply the fact that it is a much smaller model so there is less to compute. The 4090 is still power limited so it could do more but it's loud (and hot) enough as it is.

More details here:

https://jacquesmattheij.com/local-inference-with-large-langu...

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bro, you are looking at a repo that shows you exactly how to use it to achieve better results than a frontier model
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