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I've done worse than that. I've taken the job on a lower salary, being told I'd get a promotion and pay rise in 6 months. That didn't happen. And then when it didn't happen at 18 months they dangled the carrot of a promotion up two levels. After a few weeks of not hearing about it I popped a resignation letter in the post one morning, went into the office and had an email to say the promotion had "gone away".

Then they went legal trying to prevent me working for a competitor.

I actually got what I needed from the role anyway, but it was a lesson to heed the red flags. I've not heeded that lesson a couple of times recently, just because the market seems to be toast, but it's not been worth it.

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A friend that works as a manager told me that companies stretch the interview process on purpose so that at the end you will accept a lower offer that you normally would because you are exhausted by the process.
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> A friend that works as a manager told me that companies stretch the interview process on purpose so that at the end you will accept a lower offer that you normally would because you are exhausted by the process.

1. It depends on how desperate the applicant is: if they're searching while still employed then they can walk (like GP did).

2. Even if they are desperate, they may take the offer… for now… so they can start getting a salary again, but that won't prevent them from continue to look. In which case you're paying for them to learn a job which they'll leave and you'll have to pay someone (else) a second time to learn as well.

False economy IMHO.

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bingo. hiring is expensive, onboarding is expensive, offboarding is annoying and has non-trivial-risk, and dragging it out means work isn't get done in that position.

unless you're looking at VP and up level roles where there may be a significant delta in risk, cost, and pay it's probably not worth it.

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And if you’re hiring a VP who isn’t able to see through the tactic… do you even want that?
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I've mentored a lot of young engineers and something I often point out is that there is practically zero risk in accepting an offer. Many companies also do not even present the full paperwork to sign until your first day or two.

You don't have to show up on the start date, though you do have to be mindful of the bridge you may be burning. But it is totally reasonable to show up to a few days of work, and declare "you know what, I don't think this is a good fit" and no one will be offended. They don't have to know that you already accepted another offer.

Exploding offers, low-ball offers, all bullshit. But you don't have to play their games.

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Usually the manager doesn't care about this though - a p-number is a p-number, it doesn't matter if they are paying them $200k or $100k (assuming the salary range for the position was that large).

If anything the manager would prefer a higher offer that the candidate is likely to expect than a low-ball which they reject and then the hiring process has to continue.

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Yup. I never had any incentive to haggle over the Salary. If I got them to agree to a lowball, no one ever rewarded me, or cared.
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That can only really work if you are unemployed or they know your salary is is still way below.
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It's just the good old boring sunk cost fallacy.
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it also just gets to the scammer end of the "who is stupid enough to keep doing this to the end". The point of a lot of scammer's poor grammar, huge red flags, etc, is _they_ dont want to waste _their_ time with someone other than the biggest marks in the world.

I just thought it should be clearer how many of these businesses likely operate to filter out.

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Maybe I misunderstood but are you saying that companies have these lengthy interview procedures to filter out smart/capable/non-desperate candidates?

Sounds a bit counterproductive

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Depends on your goals.

A lot of places are looking for unambitious, mediocre, status-quo following bodies to fill seats and follow arcane bureaucratic processes. Too much critical thinking is bad. Ability to deal with long drawn out bullshit is good.

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whelp I guess that makes sense.

I love working in tech because it’s so cushy and chill but it’s the most stupid (and delusional) industry i ever worked in.

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> companies stretch the interview process on purpose so that at the end you will accept a lower offer

That doesn't pass the smell test. That would mean those companies do not care about filling a role of hiring competent workers. If your guy is willing to wait two whole months for your offer, you are either Google or you are trying to hire a dude who no company on earth wants.

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> small company

> Stretched over two months

These companies aren't Google. There is no valid reason why it should take so long to decide on candidates for a position. It is not necessary to have more than two interview sessions. I bail on any company that subjects people to this garbage.

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I recently had a small company take a month and had after the final two 'interviews' with the CEO and CTO were scheduled a week apart, realized this is almost certainly a stalling tactic to have a couple more candidates in the pipeline so they can pick the best.
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Agreed, when I was recruiting for a small company (where we could be easily outbid), the only tool I really had was that the process was 1 interview and I made a decision. This was before remote absolutely exploded but I was able to successfully recruit some really bright young developers and, I hope, kickstarted some incredible careers for them. Granted, I’m not confident I could do it now, as the gap between what the company could afford and what you can make working remote is much too large now!
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I always assumed that kind of tactic was a way of hiding other decisions, e.g. protected class discrimination or some such.

I’ve similarly had 6-round interviews where at the end I either receive a lowball offer or am rejected because of something disclosed up-front.

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Similar experience, multiple tech rounds all completed with excellent feedback from a company which approached me. Mentioned my ask and no indication of the range being a problem (but no firm approval either).

Based on that, assumption was the budget would be adequate. Final response was that they would not even mention the salary because it was too far away.

Following week they posted the job advert for same staff engineer role but at under average eu minimum wage.

It's risky if no salary is listed but do not ever proceed if they don't openly accept your ask without any doubt.

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>staff engineer

>under average eu minimum wage

Wth ? How does this work

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I always get a range up front from the recruiter (and later confirm with the hiring manager).
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yep - never interview - if salary range is not disclosed by the hiring manager or recruiter. if hiring manager can't discuss salary - the hiring manager is a lame duck and won't push anything but just take orders.

with regards to uk tech companies - they have salary ranges like 60k-75k - where someone might have spent time in a role at 63k e.g if the average tenure within a certain position is 3 years, 63k - then when you join they will say new joiners start at 60k.

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Just to add a little bit of perspective here. When I was a manager, if a candidate reached an interview with me, they had already had an interview with the recrui-I mean, "talent acquisition expert", with whom the compensation had already been previously discussed. I often had no idea what was the salary offered and I could not negotiate on it.

That was the other guy's job, and it as a prerequisite - they would not reach me if the compensation was not to their satisfaction. My job was to determine whether the candidate could perform at the offered post. If I needed to discuss compensation then someone before me would have screwed up.

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Perchance you mean: "non disclosure of salary is a dealbreaker"?
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Yeah I was waiting for the anecdote to reveal why OP dislikes salary disclosure.
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There should be a Yelp for shitty businesses like this and half of linkedin would get listed in the hall of shame
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It already exists: Glassdoor.
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Which is itself a very shitty business. It's there to protect the business owners. Early days was good - then needed to monetize.
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Do you still like their product or do you now understand your bias?
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This is very common with small software shops (which don't have the budget) and startups (which are running on private equity fumes).
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I would never consider a company that's making me wait that long unless I'm desperate to put food on my table and I have no other choice.
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I don't mind the company that makes me wait long, and in many cases prefer it. Just I reject any take home if takes more than few hours without communication, and I reject more than 1 round of interviews done by someone junior than me.

I like giving interviews. It gives me insight into their thinking and the company.

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Turns out many people are in just that position.

Probably the majority in current late stage capitalism

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Had a similar experience, vowed to never do take home assignments ever again.

If i was good enough to get hired as a faang with just interviews and no take home stuff i see no reason to do that for a smaller company.

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They always can low-ball you even with salary disclosure.
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Yes, but then you don't need to spend weeks of work to be low-balled.
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No, let's say you apply for a job with salary 100-120k in description. After ten rounds of interviews they give you an offer for 80k.
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This practice should be illegal.
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"Darn, that 100k-120k role was filled during our 4 rounds of interviews. Fortunately we have new role available at 80k if youre interested."
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This is usually called bait and switch, but your point still stands.
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It really should be against some kind of employment standards to do this sort of bait and switch

There are apparently some new regulations in Canada to protect job seekers from this, but it's not a clean line in the sand. It seems like companies won't likely be held accountable unless it is a pattern of hiring like this, but how do people establish a pattern when most people still won't discuss salaries?

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I think the GP's point is that if you give the companies the opportunity to do that earlier, instead of only later, you get to save a lot of time dealing with the honest low-ballers.

There's nothing you can do about the dishonest ones.

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Most companies want the new joinees to be satisfied, and if the reason is "we don't have budget" that might be acceptable. But if the reason is "we are lowballing you specifically because we can" that would just create spite in candidates mind and the company has to pay the price for the process if a candidate dropped off or joined temporarily while looking elsewhere.
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