undefined

points

[-]

> "I want it to be true that perfectly deterministic tooling is still important."

Of course it is. The AI coded apps only (debatably) work as end-user apps. They are thin little bumps on top of the software mountain. So much, including all the AI tools, depends on efficient, perfectly deterministic tooling.

It is almost hypocritical for AI enthusiasts to say we don't need to look at code anymore, while everything they do is build on piles and piles of infrastructure and tools that are carefully hard-coded, deterministic building blocks. The whole thing would come crashing down if everyone embraced vibe coding at every level.

I am just constantly baffled by people thinking that because we can make (crappy) end-user apps and one-off tools, no one needs to code anymore. Does anyone build solid tools and libraries? Does anyone still get pleasure from building a rock solid, snappy app?

I can feel all the AI coded apps and website turning to ever buggier sludge under my fingertips, and people are rejoicing that this is the way of the future.

I refuse. I will not touch Claude.

by Schlagbohrer4 hours ago|

parent|

[-]

"rock solid, snappy apps"

Where were those apps even before AI came along? Every piece of software I use in my day across Windows and iOS is a slow, laggy, piece of resource hogging garbage, and that was true long before AI came along. I'm not convinced that AI makes this worse, it might make it much better.

by skydhash49 minutes ago|

parent|

[-]

i used a ton of good apps on windows xp and 7 (sumatrapdf, codeblocks, notepad++,…), macos (things, bear.app, cleanshot,…) and Linux. But that was a bit before SaaS and their electron clients. Now I still maintain a lean desktop, but it’s mostly standalone software with no reliance on the “cloud”.

by bitwize1 hours ago|

parent|

prev|

[-]

We used to have them—in the 2000s and before. These days not so much, but there appears to be a correlation between the push to use LLMs and a hockey stick in the enshittification curve.

by rootnod33 hours ago|

parent|

prev|

[-]

Same. That is why I am over in a corner happily coding away with Common Lisp and McCLIM to write myself an editor that mixes ACME UI with Lisp. Is it ultra-polished? Hell no. But it definitely keeps me sane and I know what I wrote.

by danielvaughn15 hours ago|

parent|

prev|

[-]

I understand the sentiment. I do think it's important to experience it for yourself - not to convince you (I'm less and less convinced as the months go by) - but just to understand the visceral feeling that leads people into AI psychosis.

At times it feels literally magical. But more and more I feel like my brain has slumped onto the couch, lazily barking at a butler to do my bidding. Like a weird kind of professional brainrot.

by adamddev114 hours ago|

parent|

[-]

I read about a guy who was doing a documentary about crack addicts. They told him he needed to try it once to understand. He did. He then got addicted, lost everything and spent years on the street. Years later he finally got sober and finished the documentary.

by bloopernova4 hours ago|

parent|

prev|

[-]

> But more and more I feel like my brain has slumped onto the couch, lazily > barking at a butler to do my bidding. Like a weird kind of professional brainrot.

One metaphor could be a car. You have to motivate yourself to get out and walk now, since a car can take you almost everywhere.

Like the people who circle the parking lot trying to get the parking space closest to the store entrance, you can live your life around the "convenience" and not see the problems with what you're doing. Or you can be the person who intentionally parks far away from the entrance so you get a few more steps in. Or the person who cycles to the store. Many metaphors murdered malignantly.

But since this is mental rather than physical, we might end up being couch potatoes like you said, flipping through channels rather than reading, or doing a hobby. (is "doing" a hobby correct? It sounds like "doing a business")

by kragen13 hours ago|

parent|

prev|

[-]

> The whole thing would come crashing down if everyone embraced vibe coding at every level.

I think this is an interesting hypothesis and want to see what happens. I'm not really willing to go all the way to vibecoding, because I want to understand the system design. But I do have bots writing all the new code.

by coldtea14 hours ago|

parent|

prev|

[-]

>Of course it is. The AI coded apps only (debatably) work as end-user apps. They are thin little bumps on top of the software mountain. So much, including all the AI tools, depends on efficient, perfectly deterministic tooling.

Most of that is also written via AI these days... Even the Linux kernel got that bug.

by fock12 hours ago|

parent|

[-]

and we'll see how that plays out. The way I loom at the chains of "AI" adds feature and feature needs 5 extra PRs over a year to fix it, I think this will be fun!