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> On many, many machines 7/24/365

Been there too. The thing I disliked most, that it sometimes get stuck in some strange pose, without any reasonable way of remediation. And because it is so annoying to debug, reboot become the only tool do deal with it.

The sheer complexity of systemd created nasty feedback loop: it is too complex to be debugged; people prefer to reboot it; that keeps problems keep accumulating inside.

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I hate this 'unix philosophy in mind' 'principle' as an argument.

We are no longer 50 years ago were a linux system or distro was fitting on a floppy disk.

The handful of tools like grep, cp, etc. have a complexity of a banana and everything else successful is so big, that it doesn't fit at all.

Blender, container, ffmpeg, vlc, vim, firefox and co. Huge code bases. And if someone woudl argue "yeah but firefox is doing one thing, its browsing" thats an argument you can bring for systemd too.

Systemd is just not a 'start services in the right order' tool. Its more holistic

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> And if someone woudl argue "yeah but firefox is doing one thing, its browsing"

Actually, I would argue that browsers are doing too much :-). Webapps shouldn't be a thing, browsers should be for loading websites. Apps should run outside the browser in the OS.

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> I hate this 'unix philosophy in mind' 'principle' as an argument.

You did not deal with the most important complains that is the easy of debugging, modifying and changing stuff. It lacks a lot of this and one can question how much of an improvement ini like files are that are then interpreted in opaque ways that to provide desired features such as containerization or jailing. I personally want to usually run containers with podman, do systemd containers give me anything or is it just more cruft, same with isolation, do I really gain much from the complex namespace abstraction rather then using unshare.

> "yeah but firefox is doing one thing, its browsing"

Browsers as they exist today where a mistake that is clear. those other tools you mentioned might be large but they don't violate do just one thing well.

I am not even that much of a unix guy (I use emacs which the unix people like to shit on of course and does not fit with the do one thing well). But you are not providing arguments against the issues we have with systemd and have not demonstrated its value over other init 1 systems and even the harder case you seem to argue for it's applicability everwhere.

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You can hate it all you want, but UNIX philosophy isn't related at codebase size at all.

All the examples you give fit into UNIX philosophy rather well. Firefox doesn't do text editing and ffmpeg doesn't render web pages, and vim doesn't transcode videos. They do one thing and do it well. They are as simple as they need to be not more.

Also, if GNU coreutils have a complexity of a banana, why uutils still can't replicate them as-is? Why they had ~140 CVEs in one release despite being written in Rust? If grep is simple, why we have only two performant implementations, grep and ripgrep?

Even FreeBSD guys discussed this: https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-current/2010-Aug...

You're simplifying too much, I believe. Try writing a cp clone, why not?

systemd started as a start services in the right order tool, then bloated from there. Being holistic is not the problem, being holistic in the wrong way is.

Now, they decided that DBus is not nice enough and created their own IPC mechanism. What was that? Varlink? They don't stop there even. They say "Hey, why not try Varlink?". So to translate: "We want to kill DBus so, we will force Varlink on you".

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