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OMG, it rolled out on my paid Google Workspace account already too! What a change from ~"wait 8 weeks or more from google.com rollout to <yourdomain> rollout"

Thanks any Googlers who had a hand in this

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I'm going to assume they are saving on inference by rolling it out faster.
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You'd think so but they've been updating gemini.google.com really slowly. Up until couple weeks ago it still had gemini 3.1 - which is a February release model.

So this is an actual change of pace

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Why do you think rolling out faster -> more inference savings?
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If one of the dimensions it improves upon is inference cost per unit of work, then switching over to it would save money, and the sooner you do that, the more you save.
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Here's an explaination of what's going on in the backend.

Alibaba is forced to do this stuff: https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/semiconductors/al...

Meanwhile Deepseek: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45643163#45652636

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Smaller model, likely.
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If it's more efficient than 3.8 that it replaces.
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It's the equivalent of Gemini Flash, judging by the API price. I just tried it in the Gemini app, it's much better than the previous version.
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They just trying to register the model names into our mind. Now a days we remember Fable, Opus, Sonnet. I think Google trying to do the same.
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Problem is we have no idea here what it should mean.

Carbon is the next version of Argon. But Hydrogen is supposed to coexist with Carbon. Also no idea where the scheme is coming from, what elements should we expect.

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Is Carbon the next version of Argon? My understanding was that Argon is the middle-tier model (somewhere between OpenAI's Terra and Sol in position) whereas Carbon is supposed to be like Astra. This is assuming they don't have an even higher tier model upcoming, in which case Argon ~ Terra, Carbon ~ Sol and Element X (Plutonium?) ~ Astra.

Wild guess: maybe they are going with how abundant the elements are to scale the models. I'm no chemist so I don't know reliably how the relative abundance of Argon and Carbon works out, but Hydrogen is "well-known" as the most abundant element in the universe, so maybe that's why its the base model. But, this is essentially a trend of one, so not a trend at all, unless someone can verify it still works for Argon and Carbon.

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If you look at Google's API pricing, Gemini 4 Carbon and Gemini 4 Argon are the same while Gemini 4 Hydrogen and Gemini 3.8 Flash are the same (ignoring promotional pricing).

Intuitively, Argon is 4 Pro, Carbon is 4.1 Pro, and Hydrogen is 4.1 Flash (slightly better than Argon according to benchmarks).

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Also I intuitively get that a sonnet is "shorter" than an opus (although Fable is less clear) - I have no idea what i'm even supposed to be comparing with google elements... Atomic number? I know hydrogen is the lowest and i guess argon is bigger than carbon but am I expected to know that? Or is it by weight? Argon's a gas so it's lighter than Carbon?

The sol/terra/astra, haiku/sonnet/opus clicked without needing to be explained

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A mythos is longer than an opus.

A fable is a tame mythos.

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> Carbon is the next version of Argon. But Hydrogen is supposed to coexist with Carbon. Also no idea where the scheme is coming from, what elements should we expect.

The problem with using elements names simultaneously as both version numbers and product tiers, is that inevitably you will face a confusing collision or you will exhaust the space.

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Openai/anthropic's model names have the same issue too
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Yea, it’s Terra 6.1 and Sonnet 5.5 level performance, per the benchmarks. Like you, I was left wondering whether this was better or worse than Argon, etc. It’s not intuitive; gotta read the fine print.
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According to Artificial Analysis, Gemini 4 Hydrogen (54) is closer to GPT-6.1 Sol (55) than GPT-6.1 Terra (51). Interestingly, it's also better than Gemini 4 Argon (50), which was Google's previous Pro model. Claude Sonnet 5.5 (55) is slightly ahead though.
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I'm still not sure if Carbon is meant to replace Argon or meant to be used alongside it?
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I don't think it's good scheme to follow but google is just following the trend of anthropic and OpenAI set up. I don't think anyone can understand Anthropic's Model naming scale with Haiku, opus, fable and Mythos. Similar with the OpenAI tera and other models in their line up.
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This is so dorky, but I have a comparison with frisbees. In Disc golf each brand does its own naming scheme related to the speed / stability of discs. One company (Prodigy) produced a _roughly_ ordered approach and people very regularly commented on how confusing it was. By comparison, other brands (which got no critiques) have literally arbitrary names matching only a theme (e.g. electricity, animals, ...mental disorders/phenomena). It took me a very long time to come to grips with it. I ultimately think with branding... it only matters that people who use the system can identify things as distinct. I think the subset of minds that wants a strictly logical relationship to ordering is fleetingly small. To most people its additionally not even relevant.

My only real complaint with Google is they regularly change names for seemingly no reason. I'm still out here saying "Gemini" when I type "agy" and I don't bother saying "Anti gravity" because I assume that name won't exist in a year or two.

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I think the others are mostly pretty clear. A haiku is a very short poem; a sonnet is a longer poem; an opus is an artistic masterwork ("Magnum opus"), so not necessarily longer but certainly grander. Mythos is slightly more tenuous but still goes in the direction of "cultural awe", something that the highest forms of writing aim for. Fable isn't a perfect name TBH, it sounds much less grand than "mythos" to my ears despite being roughly the same product AFAICT, and with a dangerous hint of "I might make things up".

I think OpenAI's names are clearest. In most people's understanding, moon < Earth < sun < stars.

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I think of it as earth being where I am, not in relation to the size of the items, so to me it’s weird that Luna is far away, then Terra is close, then Sol is further. So even those names aren’t clear to everyone. Actually I didn’t realize the ordering was size-based until you said it. And Astra isn’t really a size, is it?
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More importantly, Anthropic has been consistent with their naming convention for years (two, yes, but plural years) now. OpenAI and Google’s habit of changing naming conventions semi-regularly makes their products harder to grok.
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Android version names were random desserts for the longest time. People are expecting too much from Google here
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They weren't random. They were alphabetical. The first letter of the name always shifted to the next letter in the alphabet.

• Cupcake (Android 1.5)

• Donut (Android 1.6)

• Eclair (Android 2.0–2.1)

• Froyo (Android 2.2)

• Gingerbread (Android 2.3)

• Honeycomb (Android 3.0–3.2)

• Ice Cream Sandwich (Android 4.0)

• Jelly Bean (Android 4.1–4.3)

• KitKat (Android 4.4)

• Lollipop (Android 5.0–5.1)

• Marshmallow (Android 6.0)

• Nougat (Android 7.0–7.1)

• Oreo (Android 8.0–8.1)

• Pie (Android 9)

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They were alphabetically ordered random desserts. It wasn't too bad.
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This isn't the same situation. Android versions always had 2 parts: the number and the name. They were always easy to follow.

Using constantly changing names for tiers is a bad idea. Unless the tiers are pre-existing (bronze, silver, gold).

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> Fable isn't a perfect name TBH

Fables are short.

They should have used "saga" / "epic" / "cycle" / "series" / "universe".

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I realize that you're making a point about ordering here but realistically none of these except maybe Saga work as Anthropic product names.
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Epic and Universe for sure work as LLM model names.
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> but google is just following the trend of anthropic and OpenAI set up.

They botched it.

A haiku is a short poem. A sonnet is a longer work. An opus is a great work. Mythos is a connected body of works.

As with Open AI, Luna --> Terra --> Sol --> Astra from smallest to largest. Very straightforward.

With Google it's totally incoherent. Hydrogen --> Argon --> Carbon!?

Hydrogen is small, but it's the most abundant element in the universe by far. Argon is >3x larger than carbon by molecular mass, though carbon is more abundant. It's impossible to determine what's supposed to be smaller and what's supposed to be larger.

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I never made these connections until now. This will really help me remember which is which, I honestly had just given up.
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It's funny how different naming schemes "click" (or don't) with different people in different ways. When I first heard the haiku/sonnet/opus it was immediately obvious that they were linking the size of the model to the size of the piece of writing. Same with moon/planet/sun etc. for OpenAI's models.

If Google was going to go with elements, it should have been an absolute no-brainer to link size of of the element to the size of the model eg. Hydrogen/carbon/argon, but no, Google screws up the naming like they _always_ do. Hell, use the noble gases for christ sake. Helium/neon/argon/krypton/xeon would have been great, not perfect mind you, because a lot of people might not remember the ordering of those elements, but at least it would be consistent and make sense.

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Yea, impossible to know whether it's supposed to go by atomic mass, frequency or some other metric. Plus most people off the top of their heads don't really have these stats memorized. With OpenAI and Anthropic it's way more straightforward. If you stop the average person on the street and told them to order the three by mass, most couldn't do it. But they could order Moon/Earth/Sun/Astra
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Yeah. Atomic mass: Makes no sense, argon is larger than carbon. Frequency: Makes no sense, argon is least frequent of the three and hydrogen is everywhere, so carbon would be in-between rather than the flagship.

Letters of the alphabet: Also makes no sense. There was a theory that Argon = A, that there was an unreleased B model (Bismuth or Barium or something), Carbon = C, etc. (Similar to Intel's MMORPG-inspired Alchemist --> Battlemage --> Celestial...) Hydrogen broke this notion.

It's just completely incoherent.

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Now written out like this, I can see a D = Deuterium, which is mass 2 or heavy hydrogen, but somewhere along along the line it was lost in translation.
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I’m not sure if the average person on the street would know the terms Luna, Terra, Sol, and especially Astra.

Also, the biggest being Astra is a bit confusing. Sol is also a star.

Furthermore, unless you know they’re supposed to be ordered by size you can’t know which is best.

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The average person isn't supposed to care, they won't be switching models to prompt for the best television for under $1000. But for professionals they should have some sort of understanding of these things.
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Corsa, Astra, Vectra and Omega would be better names.
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I see that Kadett finally disintegrated into nothingness :)
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> I’m not sure if the average person on the street would know the terms Luna, Terra, Sol, and especially Astra.

I don't think these are as difficult as you're making them sound? I think the majority of people who will care what model they're using will know "lunar", "terrestrial", "solar", "astronomy" etc?

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Google genuinely have made a huge mess with their AI product stack. They have Antigravity, Antigravity IDE, Gemini app, AI Studio, etc. They have too many similarly named and confusing products. Google should seriously fire their branding team and bring some new talent to consolidate and restructure things logically.
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What's a fable? Why is it bigger than an Opus?
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Maybe the AI is trying to tell us its real name !

Ar - C - H - ?

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So the next model will be Yttrium?:)
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If the next two are oxygen and nitrogen, which are plausible, that would be somewhat sinister.
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when you put it this way, it sounds like they are operating on an XY axis (at least) vs a continuum. Argon big, complicated, slow AND expensive; Carbon abundant, widely available, can do anything, costly as a result; Hydrogen, abundant, volatile, cheap. can't imagine how insane Nitrogen must be
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Sometimes I wonder if naming things is hard or what.
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Of course Google is ordering their models by their density at standard temperature and pressure.

Hydrogen: this thing floats. Density less than air.

Argon: does not float. Density more than air.

Carbon: this thing is a solid, whichever allotrope you pick. It’s solidly heavier.

See, so easy! /s

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I don't know if it's a good idea to market one's AIs by how "dense" they are.
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Of course not. See the /s tag.
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I find theirs to be a lot more excusable, given it's obvious that the Sun is bigger than the Earth, which is bigger than the Moon. Anthropic less-so, but if you know the meaning of each, you can infer it somewhat well.

Google's is just random.

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Anthropic's naming does not make sense, but at least they are consistent.
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What about it makes no sense? I find it to make the most sense, given it's about text generation and their models are named from shortest text to longest.
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I guess it's poetic but I don't see how haiku < sonnet < opus < fable < mythos is unclear. If you've never been exposed to literature maybe?
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You day that very matter of factly as if it doesn't include "opus < fable"
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I think people on HN argue way too much about this. It's not like they're named iPhone 18 Pro XL Max. It's meant to evoke a feeling of wonder or awe, not really that hard of a logical leap to make, and it's only one minor quibble. Jeesh.
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Mythos (Greek) = Fable (Latin)

Fable is essentially Mythos but with guard rails added.

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For Google Workspace users: please replace the ancient 3.1 Pro in Gemini. I think it's 10 months old...
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the naming scheme "trend" (opus/sonnet/haiku vs luna/terra/sol/astra) is just fine. It's just Google's version of it that sucks.
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The general trend -- naming models classes after objects from some implicitly ordered set -- was started by Anthropic. It's generally fine, but they didn't leave enough headroom for their largest models, so the implied ordering for opus/fable/mythos is kind of muddled to the average person.

Small/medium/large/etc. has the most easily deducible ordering, but it's not great from a marketing perspective and also has headroom issues unless you're ok with names like gpt-8-xxxxl.

OpenAI's naming is probably the best. The ordering is easily deducible and there's plenty of headroom in both directions. Tons of cool sci-fi sounding names still on the table, and it also comes with the implication that they're approaching a singularity.

I don't know what Google is doing. It's kind of impressive to have an inconsistent ordering after only three names.

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OpenAI's mostly works, except Luna and Terra are swapped depending on whether you think of it as "distance from earth" or "size/magnitude of object".

Google, though, really has broken new ground in incoherence. WTF.

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Naming an AI model Argon will never not be hilarious to me.

It doesn't do anything! It's inert!

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I'm waiting for Gemini 5 Uranium.

Which will be launched after GPT 7 Uranus.

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Same, my eyebrows about jumped off my face. To go from Google as normal -- product announced, rolls out randomly in some access modalities, mysteriously doesn't in others because no org talks to any other org -- to "wait wtf is this new model I didn't even hear about this" is so laughably bizarre. Not going to get used to it, I know Google.
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Agreed on the naming issue and while it was novel at first it will inevitably get worse as more models get release, until decide to abandon it all together. It’s like they are setting themselves up for failure on that front lol
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Look at how many AI adjacent products Google talks about in this press release along with its model names. Anthropic and OpenAI are guilty of it as well, so many models and ways of working with them right now, letting the users figure out the nuances of each.

Earlier today I found myself asking ChatGPT to research and explain exactly what Anthropic Playground is for and how specifically it may differ for my tasks from Anthropic Workspace, Chat, Code, and API credits. I chose ChatGPT Sol 6.1 high for this task going on gut feel, hoping it was the best model to handle that job without wasting my precious Claude tokens.

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I think there need to build these adjacent things to create lock in. I can switch between Claude, GPT and pretty much and model on OpenRouter in little time, especially for dev work. With all of these being weeks apart in progress on the models and open-weight models seemingly getting closer and closer there is almost no moat. Without a moat they cannot charge high prices - it's a commodity. Having lots of my data in their system and having other exclusinve features like Claude Design or Whiteboard and what not, they create something that I cannot keep if I switch to a different vendor for a cheaper model.
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Yes the naming is nonsensical, because the intelligence ranking is this (with atomic numbers in parentheses for those that don't have the periodic table memorized):

Carbon (6) > Hydrogen (1) > Argon (18).

Double nonsense because it appears Hydrogen is in fact a smaller model than Argon, in which case this should obviously be released as "Gemini 4.1 Hydrogen" or something.

What they probably should've done if they really wanted to use elements is to do noble gases, and start these first three models in the middle (to leave room for bigger/smaller models in the future).

So you'd have:

Argon => Argon (18)

Hydrogen => Krypton (36)

Carbon => Xenon (54)

Not exactly because as noted it appears hydrogen is in fact the smaller model, but then this should be (again) 4.1 or something.

And they'd leave space for a truly massive model if needed (Radon) and two slots for much smaller models, with Helium (2) presumably being a model that could be run on basically any consumer device.

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Maybe the confusion is the plan; keep people talking.

No matter what you do you can't go wrong if you spin it right!

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cargo culting

"Claude and Codex have cool names, they are more successful than us, so therefore if we give gemini cool names we'll be successful too"

-marketing drone, probably

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they probably went to chatGPT and asked for good names
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