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Matrix is way more expensdve to run by its protocol design
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But that's because it does way more. Matrix is the foundation to build a self-hosted Slack-like platform (public/private rooms, audio and video support, threads, e2e encryption, etc). XMPP is basically self-hosted AOL Instant Messenger.
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> public/private rooms

Fully supported by XMPP: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0045.html

> audio and video support

Supported by some clients (usually over Jingle) but nothing standard AFAIK: https://xmpp.org/about/technology-overview/#jingle

> threads

Rooms can have multiple threads but I don't think they're used the way they are in discord/slack/etc.

> e2e encryption

XMPP has multiple ways. Currently the most widely used by clients is OMEMO https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0384.html

> etc

Whatever you can think of, XMPP supports it. Whether enough clients support it for it to be reliable is another question entirely!

(The XEPs I mentioned are considered "core modern" so most clients support them, you can browse through https://docs.modernxmpp.org/client/protocol/ to see what's considered the bare minimum for a full client)

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Matrix doesn't do way more. The client features you mention are also widespread in XMPP world, and some clients even do more (look at Movim for instance).

Where matrix does do more is on the protocol level, because it objectively absurdly complex and unnecessarily so. Matrix stands to offer distributed rooms as the one differentiating feature over XMPP. The complexity price to pay for that is substantial. All along, XMPP had fMUCs and distributed servers, because the complexity of clustering could be absorbed by the runtime better, for those who cared/needed it (as proven by the overwhelming success of WhatsApp, a fork of ejabberd, running on top of the Erlang platform)

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> Matrix is the foundation to build a self-hosted Slack-like platform (public/private rooms, audio and video support, threads, e2e encryption, etc)

Yes. And since that’s more than most Matrix users use Matrix for - it’s a design cost brought on to every single user to accommodate the needs of the 0.1%.

The complexity and cost of running a Matrix home-server instance is ridiculous. Should you ever need to do admin work - you’ll be forced to curl your own server using bespoke APIs (or use Claude to do it for you) - because element never thought an admin portal was important to include in a globally federated com-product which just keeps accumulating more and more data.

I use Matrix myself - because what else is there - but let’s be honest about what this thing is.

It’s a giant, over-engineered, under-implemented promise - which fails to deliver the second you push it past the IRC stage.

Btw - I’ve run IRC servers for 20+ years with less total lifetime maintenance than a Matrix home-server has in a single year. Just so many things breaking.

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what server are you actually using? the admin portal you’re looking for is https://github.com/element-hq/element-admin.
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> Looks like matrix is in this niche now.

Matrix is almost as old now as XMPP was when Matrix first came out, and yet, after all those years and grandiose promises, and loads of venture capital, it doesn't strike me as approaching the problem in a better/sounder manner than the protocol it was set to replace (quite the opposite, actually, Matrix, the protocol and its implementations are worse on almost every metric).

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Eh, I've used both a lot and matrix is kinda flailing from my perspective. At least for casual use. If you are a client of Element maybe the experience is better, but with their "next-gen" battery friendly client they've been working on for years, I can't even get notifications working through public unified push servers when using matrix.org. Meaning that just to get started using it I have to run my own matrix or up server.
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i remember that too. XMPP is still alive and kicking, just a lot quieter these days. :)
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I switched from Matrix back to XMPP, because it has a lower setup and operating cost. I would have loved to use IRC, but the XMPP client mobile support is a bit better
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