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It's a fan, filter, and a case with a small PCB + sensors. They are absolutely selling these at a good profit margin.
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> Counterpoint: many vendors with lock-in use the price of the subscription and ads they show you to subsidize the device itself.

Vendors want to have their cake and eat it. They are no longer happy with a one-time sale, they want a continuous revenue stream. I have absolutely no qualms about buying "subsidized" devices and liberating them. I am not going to pay five times the price of a "smart TV" for a commercial display with worse specs when I can buy the consumer version and not connect it to the Internet or root it.

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This isn't quite true. They are nearly always using subscriptions and ads to increase their profit margin. Enabling them to go from a low-margin hardware business into a high margin software service business. Even high-end brands like Wolf/ Sub-zero are low margin compared to a software services company. That is why every company is shifting their portfolio to this subscription/ ad model and not leaving any "unconnected" device models available in their line ups.

I think this is bad for customers. If every vendor does this, and regulators don't set regulations that balance the interests of companies with the interests of customers, than the only option people have are things like this.

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> Counterpoint: many vendors with lock-in use the price of the subscription and ads they show you to subsidize the device itself.

What exactly is the subsidy here?

Is it that they plan to meet a bulk of their profit target after the sale, instead of frontloading the profit. The subsidy can be considered a 1000 dollars on a 200 dollar device if their target price is 1200 dollars.

It is only really subsidized if the device is actually sold below cost of BOM & essential software needed minus bloat. I'm skeptical that they are giving away hardware below cost based on potential profits.

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They're not giving away the hardware. They're giving away a couple points of margin and making up for that after.

And with Amazon and other online shopping, consumer price sensitivity, and the ability to act on it, pressure is at an all-time high. There's a huge race to the bottom for all sorts of consumer goods.

Let's say total cost of manufacturing and distribution and service for the manufacturer is $50. Given two functionally identical products: if you were a layperson consumer, would you buy the product that costs 80 or would you buy the product that costs 100?

If the manufacturer can extract $20 of ad revenue from you, and you make the cheaper purchase up front, then it's win/win for the consumer (spent less), and the manufacturer (able to offer a lower price option and thus hopefully higher sales).

Well, "win/win" in a sense, I suppose.

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But what if the desire is not to harm some obnoxious company, but instead to reduce their influence in the market? But I agree generally, free any locked down device you happen to find yourself possessing.
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> But what if the desire is not to harm some obnoxious company, but instead to reduce their influence in the market?

I don't see the difference. How would you reduce their influence without harming them?

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I was challenging the assertion that buying and freeing is better than not engaging at all. I think the better comment would have been to indicate there is not likely a general rule. Devils and details and all that.
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It depends on the degree to which the hardware is subsidized, if at all.
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I suppose we should also account for the fact that it takes resources away from a less obnoxious competitor, assuming one exists.
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I want everyone, everywhere, to do this to TV manufacturers. Root them. Destroy their “smart” software.

There is no competition in the space anymore. Not on that. You either get crudded-up devices or a panel that doesn’t have the fundamental AV capabilities required of a living room TV.

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Subsidizing products does not mean the consumer spends less.

Who pays for those ads/tracking/etc... companies that want to sell stuff to the consumer. Congratulations, subsidization just introduced more middlemen which extract more profit from the consumer.

The simpler things can be, the cheaper things can be.

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The goal isn't to pay minimal money. If that was the goal, you strap an air filter to a box fan and use an esp32 to turn the power on and off. Or a solid state relay if you want to get fancy with different power levels.

The goal is to do harm to anti-consumer companies. Buying their (subsidized) hardware, and then breaking their lock-in so you and others aren't shown ads or forced to pay useless subscriptions, harms the company.

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By buying the device and then breaking the lock-in, one does more harm to the anti-consumer device manufacturer than had they done nothing at all.

Only if you can guarantee that the vendor is going to remain in business forever, and provide service and support for the product forever.

Neither of those things happen. Ever.

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That doesn't make sense, I don't think you understand what I said.

If the manufacturer subsidizes the hardware purchase, that loss is realized at hardware purchase time.

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I don't believe that they subsidize hardware anymore.

Years ago, this was true. But today, selling your personal information isn't a loss leader. It's additional profit on top of the profit from the product.

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