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> its like comparing apples and oranges.

Yeah, I don't disagree, but I would argue the Raspberry was always an applorange, and that's exactly what made it popular (together with the cheap price in the beginning, which made it basically an impulse buy). It brought people into microcontroller/embedded systems territory without having to actually deal with all of the stuff that made this so daunting. As you said, it is basically a normal Linux PC, just that it runs Arm and has GPIO. People who are really into electronics/embedded systems will use a proper microcontroller nowadays anyway, these have gotten so powerful and easy to use that there's really no reason for a Pi anymore. And on the other side, people who want a little server, a pi-hole, tailscale or octoprint or whatever, can just use an old used laptop/miniPC or similar. Since the Pi has gotten so expensive, I see basically no reason to get one anymore.

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Pi still makes the Pi Zero for like $15 that runs linux, if you want a cheap low power general computer running linux
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At least where I live, the Pi Zero is pretty much impossible to get, and when it's available, it's more like 60$.
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Where do you live? I'll send you a Pi Zero if you need one
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Sending would probably cost the difference, but check first where the gp lives.
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You can run any OS on any Pi board other than the pico

By the way, I got a zero 2W a few months ago and it costed me 47€

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I would argue that even if you need "a cheap SBC with GPIOs", at this point you'd be better served by connecting a tiny $5 microcontroller-powered board with a USB PHY + its own GPIO headers, to any cheap "computer" (i.e. a GPIO-less SBC, or an old laptop, or a phone like in the article, etc.) over USB; where the MCU board essentially serves the host a "GPIO gadget."

You can make such a dongle yourself from ~any MCU dev board, but there are also productized "USB GPIO breakout" adapter boards, e.g. the Adafruit MCP2221A.

The "Pi as an SBC with GPIOs" case now only makes sense if you really, really require the Pi's compactness and/or monolithic-ness (as might be the case for e.g. ruggedized embedded systems like robots.)

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I always thought the value-prop of a Pi was the monolithic nature. If you needed GPIO and Linux, you didn't have to glue two things together to make a solution, you could just buy one device that met the requirements.
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I use a pi (4th? generation) to run homeassistant, calendar sync target and a few other random small services on. It's great. It works, it doesn't make noise, it's small, it plugs into USB-C, the power brick is small, too. The SSD I'm storing everything on because I had a few failed SD cards has a larger footprint than the rest of the computer. What not to like? Nothing I run on it requires faster CPU, and the small footprint is worth something to me. Sure, if you have a big house with a dedicated server room/hobby space, you might as well have a NUC/old laptop/whatever.
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> The comparison with NUCs or mini PCs or laptop boards feels like it's a wrong comparison.

For many (maybe even most) people they do the same thing. Some just want a HTPC, basic desktop, or small server, no GPIO needed. Raspberry Pis were definitely cheaper early on because you could actually buy boards at or near MSRP, but over time the price rose and mini PCs became cheaper.

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>mini PCs became cheaper

or maybe the mini pcs started becoming available at all. I think these were a concept since core 2 duo and first gen i3 era. before then the chips were too much wattage for a mini pc. and the first generation mini pcs were also costly for enterprises to adopt in bulk. its only after 4th and 6th gen intel that these were adopted in large quantities in enterprises and once they dumped those in the used market they became comparable in pricing and somewhat in power to a rpi.

Used powerful PCs have always been available for dirt cheap on eBay even when the first pi was launched. just that mini pcs are a more recent thing.

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i worked with Intel NUCs in 2013-2014, not exactly recent and they were good enough then.
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Had a couple NUCs but I loved the Gigabyte Brix. They're over 10 years old at this point and I still have them doing things like running my local Unifi network software, etc.
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Well, the earlier Mini-PCs were a good bit more anemic, that's why adoption was slow; I had one or two earlier ones; both were AMD Bobcat cores; one was a 'not quite finished' thing where I took a dreamcast and put a small board in it (Where did that go, anyway?) and the other was a small, almost router-sized box. And both of those were, well... good for most of what I wanted (i.e. 8/16 bit console emulation and basic media/browsing) but definitely constrained. (As a side rant, I still wish AMD didn't kneecap non-console Jaguar parts, that single channel limit always struck me as a 'we don't want to show how much we fucked up with bulldozer' sort of thing...)

As far as mini-pcs... The first Intel NUC was a Sandy bridge, i.e. Gen2, FWIW. And we did have the 'Mac Mini' as far back as 2005, buuuuut that wasn't cheap because Apple.

I think SSDs were another big part of mini-PCs though; it's easy to forget for granted the risks of having a hard drive in a poor thermal environment, as well as the general size constraints one imposes. [0]

[0] - Surrrre, you could use a 2.5 inch HDD instead, but 2.5 inch HDDs almost always were slower than a 3.5 inch HDD (excluding the VelociRaptor, but that would only be more demanding as far as thermal...)

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> The goal of raspberry pi's was to have a standard GPIO connected to a moderately powerful and cheap computer for educational purposes.

At first it was a blessing that the Raspberry Pi gained popularity as a general purpose computer, not just for education and embedded applications. The additional demand and popularity brought more money and development attention to the ecosystem.

At some point, which I could never really put my finger on, this general purpose computer popularity grew so large that the embedded systems and educational aspects of Raspberry Pi seemed almost forgotten by the mainstream users. At a local in-person meetup group it was a running theme for people to brag about how many Raspberry Pis they owned for different purposes and to boast about using them for applications where they didn’t really fit. In person I’ve heard more about Raspberry Pi NAS systems (where people are always disappointed with the performance and the price of forcing a Pi into this role) or Raspberry Pi Kubernetes clusters (which mostly sat idle and could have been replaced by a single PC with more RAM).

This reached such a critical mass that it almost seemed like the mainstream discussion forgot the original purpose of the Pi and thought it was literally just another computer, but small. Most people who tried to use it for this purpose were left slightly frustrated by how it didn’t perform like they wanted a computer to perform.

So now every discussion about Raspberry Pi attracts comments about how nobody should buy a Pi when you can buy a NUC or laptop or some other used piece of hardware and it’s so much “better”. This is the right advice for a lot of people who wanted a powerful general computer but bought a Pi instead, but it’s also furthering the misunderstanding of what the Pi is for.

The real advice is that everyone should be shopping for the right tool for the job. There are a lot of cool applications for the Pi where a NUC or old laptop or phone doesn’t make sense because you actually need the compact size, the low-level I/O, or some other feature. However anyone who can put a NUC or laptop side by side with a Raspberry Pi and consider them both viable options for their project probably shouldn’t have been looking at a single board computer to begin with.

There is a parallel situation happening with the “just buy an ESP32” arguments. If an ESP32 solves your problem, you also probably shouldn’t have been in the market for a Raspberry Pi.

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> There is a parallel situation happening with the “just buy an ESP32” arguments. If an ESP32 solves your problem, you also probably shouldn’t have been in the market for a Raspberry Pi.

I have mixed feelings on that.

For the longest time it was safe to say "just buy a Raspberry Pi" because they were cheap enough and powerful enough. If memory serves me correctly, the base board cost roughly the same as an Arduino Uno and offered considerably more. (Of course, there were cheaper Uno clones, but those depended upon support offered by official Arduino software development tools.)

While there are some projects which would only be possible with something like the Uno, there were far more projects that would only be possible with something like the Pi. So if you wanted to give generic go-to advice to a novice, the Pi it was.

The right advice is to use the right tool for the job, but that is something that a novice (or fly-by-night forum posters) aren't prepared to handle.

Of course, things change. There are more inexpensive microcontroller development boards and the microcontrollers themselves are much more powerful. While that doesn't negate the benefits of a Linux SBC, it does raise questions now that those SBCs are considerably more expensive.

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It combined cheap GPIO for $35 instead of $500 with HDMI, tiny size, full Python instead of MicroPython, passive cooling and Linux.

Suddenly the Kodi and the GPIO crowd (Arduino, ESP8266, ESP32, etc.) could work with the same board.

A new era, like the IBM PC or the iPhone. Changed computing forever.

EDIT: like other commenters noted, it seems like it made the intel NUC a reality.

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The GPIO in Pi is almost useless. Nobody runs servos off of those. Pis are mostly used as just Linux PCs with USB ports that reliably power itself on.

IMO, the problem with the Pi GPIO is that it's a collection of GPIO pins and low pin count buses for controlling peripherals, rather than a singular bus. The fact that it runs Linux without an RTOS monitor program or a sidecar of sorts adds to the problem.

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Much like the goal of the PS3 was to have a powerful gaming console that also let you run Linux. The market quickly deals with any hardware that is cheaper than its value.
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For me the value prop is a low-power device that can be passively cooled but has a full Linux and tcp/ip stack, at a price point where I don’t care if I accidentally wreck it.

Fantastic for one-off projects.

Nowadays they require cooling fans and cost absurd amounts considering the performance so there seems little point.

Most of my one off projects these days are now on microcontrollers.

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Pi Zero is still like $15
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Yeah I use those too. But I have a collection of STM32 blue pills and espressif stuff that is otherwise collecting dust.
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writing a USB driver takes a fraction of the effort it used to these days. GPIO no longer holds quite as much value as it used to.
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