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Who would you rather be?

Apple, Google, or Meta?

Apple obviously. They protect their users and still have a generally positive social vibe.

Meta and Google are largely only spoken of in negative light socially, and constantly castigated for their "user hostile" behavior.

But what is the ultimate irony here?

Apple only exists for people with money. It's a pay-to-play enterprise, and only a small sliver of the global population can afford to be part of it.

Google and Meta welcome everyone, and give everyone access to the same services and features (by and large).

I think there are a lot of people, who if they truly stepped back and understood this whole picture, would be left in a tornado of a soul search. How could the free companies with no bias towards wealth possibly end up as the bad guys?

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"How could the free companies with no bias towards wealth possibly end up as the bad guys?"

Is that a serious question? They are ad companies. They don't do charity.

And one company had as a slogan "don't be evil" - they got rid of. And the other one was started with the words about their users

"they trust me. Dumb fucks"

They literally are the bad guys. Google started different, but now I don't see any value they care for except making more money by more web dominance. And with that dominance, spy, sell the data or use it to hijack peoples attention and manipulate it.

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Why do you think Google and Meta such broad access to their services? For strictly charitable ends?
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Blame the algorithm x shareholder combo. Hell I'm 30 and I thought the tech industry might be just the force that sets the world straight because it was all about making human lives better.
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My take is that that very openness is what encouraged people to pour their hearts and souls into an online presence and directly resulted in the situation we see today. It was an aberration caused by the development of new and exciting tech, and not the potential start of a new and sustainable form of improved life.

As a side note, the "openness" at the times you discussed were still very limited in demography and geography.

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So, you're saying it's actually the users fault for using the app(s)/service(s) too much?
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People hardly blame the cigarettes. It's always the smokers.
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We blame the cigarette companies quite a lot, though.
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I mean yeah governments do, institutions do. But normal people always say it's your fault for smoking. Maybe the same mentality should be about using some certain things from the internet.
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I think this is more reflective of your own position in the tech industry.

Your perspective is common and I see it a lot, but primarily in older and jaded developers.

When I switch cohorts and work with younger people in the real world (not chronically online) it’s a complete 180: Back to being excited about tech and the future, not really dwelling on the things that HNers complain about because they’re too busy looking forward than back at the tech world.

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Are you sure it’s because they’re “too busy looking forward” and not because they didn't get to experience how free and open things used to be, and thus don’t have the context to see how far we’ve fallen?

How does this younger cohort feel about locked down devices, App Store distribution and the like? In my experience younger people don’t think about it at all, because they aren’t aware of what the alternative could even be.

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Open source is more exciting than ever, imo. People can much more credibly customize their own software now thanks to language models, and that makes the fact that something’s open source an even more compelling feature. It also provides an alternative interface to whatever (usually rough) UI it has.

Lots of people are using locked down devices, but the higher friction alternatives just lost a lot of their friction.

Combine that with Windows getting noticeably worse and more aggressively annoying, and it might finally be The Year Of The Linux Desktop.

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> Open source is more exciting than ever, imo.

On a side note, so are the bugs.

These excessive daily updates I get on my linux are exhausting. For example, libre office started lagging on a large document I frequent daily and I had to rollback.

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> and not because they didn't get to experience how free and open things used to be, and thus don’t have the context to see how far we’ve fallen?

I am 110% sure, because the young people I socialize with are operating in a tech environment that is more free and open than what I had as a kid.

The amount of open software and platforms we have right now would be mind blowing to younger me. The fact that I can run high quality LLMs on my laptop and even use them to open up old, closed games I had as a kid is incredible.

> How does this younger cohort feel about locked down devices, App Store distribution and the like?

Honestly? They DGAF. Their phones are communication devices and convenience things in their pocket. They have so many actual computers, SBCs, and microcontrollers to play with and they just want their phones to be phones.

Those who do care about open platforms vote with their wallet and buy one. They’re pragmatic. They don’t buy an iPhone and then whine about it being locked down because they know that the iPhone is not what you buy if that’s your goal.

You also have to remember that they grew up in the age of janky jailbroken phone mods. Jailbreaking your phone wasn’t equivalent to freedom, it was what people did when they wanted crazy fonts and colors and widgets on their phone until it bugged out and broke so bad they had to wipe it and start over. They got their fill of jailbreaking and moved on.

> In my experience younger people don’t think about it at all, because they aren’t aware of what the alternative could even be.

I think this mindset is unfairly smug and dismissive. Like only the old people are capable of understanding technology and the world. In my experience the young people know more about the current open alternatives and their options than I do if for no other reason than they’re more online, have more free time, and have probably watched 80 YouTube videos talking about it this year.

Would you be open to accepting the idea that maybe they do know what’s out there, and they just have different priorities than you?

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"they grew up in the age of janky jailbroken phone mods" - the generation before grew up in the age of not needing them because you could just run programs on hardware. Seems less open to me.
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>I am 110% sure, because the young people I socialize with are operating in a tech environment that is more free and open than what I had as a kid.

What tech environments are you using that are more open now than in the past? It certainly seems you're conflating LLMs and their ability to 'create anything (regardless of quality or level of skill of the creator) on demand' rather than the software & services currently provided by Microsoft/Meta/Google/Amazon et al. that have slowly monopolized essentially everything and pushed the smaller players out. I'm referring to the majority of software and services available to the general tech using public.

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> smug and dismissive

But then you're talking about highly privileged people being optimistic.

It's easy to be positive when you grow up with the kind of wealth that gives you access to expensive hardware, as indicated by your statements "LLMs on my laptop" and "They have so many actual computers, SBCs, and microcontrollers to play with".

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As everyone loves to point out here, there are so many options to escape the stuff you don't like. I'm in my 40s too, and although I gripe about ads and dark patterns occasionally, I actively work on eliminating those things from my digital life. As a result I'm generally happy with the state of tech. There's very little unpleasantness that I really can't escape from. I've debloated windows, run a good ad blocker, use LLMs to filter the garbage out of HN and reddit, avoid social media apps, use LLMs to set up my local-first homelab and mod games to my liking, etc.

There's a few ways to go here. 1) (vast majority of people) don't even notice what's going on and generally fine with things. 2) notice, and sink into negativity and helplessness. 3) notice, and actively weed out the garbage.

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I think the point would be that you don't eliminate the stuff you don't like permanently, that you need to "actively work" against them, and they will persist in changing their side so you've got to indefinitely continue active work to keep your personal device to your liking.
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