I don't make any attempt to hide it. Nearly every commit message says "Co-Authored-By: Claude Opus 4.5". You correctly pointed out that there were some AI smells in the writing, so I removed them, just like I correct typos, and the writing is now better.
I don't care deeply about this code. It's not a masterpiece. It's functional code that is very useful to me. I'm sharing it because I think it can be useful to other people. Not as production code but as a reference or starting point they can use to build (collaboratively with claude code) functional custom software for themselves.
I spent a weekend giving instructions to coding agents to build this. I put time and effort into the architecture, especially in relation to security. I chose to post while it's still rough because I need to close out my work on it for now - can't keep going down this rabbit hole the whole week :) I hope it will be useful to others.
BTW, I know the readme irked you but if you read it I promise it will make a lot more sense where this project is coming from ;)
I don't mind it if I have good reason to believe the author actually read the docs, but that's hard to know from someone I don't know on the internet. So I actually really appreciate if you are editing the docs to make them sound more human written.
I use this stuff heavily and I have some libraries I use that are very effective for me that I have fully vibed into existence. But I would NOT subject someone else to them, I am confident they are full of holes once you use them any differently than I do.
The truth about vibe coding is that, fundamentally, it’s not much more than a fast-forward button: ff you were going to write good code by hand, you know how to guide an LLM to write good code for you. If, given infinite time, you would never have been able to achieve what you’re trying to get the LLM to do anyway, then the result is going to be a complete dumpster load.
It’s still garbage in, garbage out, as it’s always been; there’s just a lot more of it now.
You get paid to get stuff done, period.
Firm no. There should be and there will continue to be. Maybe for you all code is business/money-making code, but that is not true for everyone.
> We use computers to solve problems.
We can use computers for lots of things like having fun, making art, and even creating problems for other people.
> You get paid to get stuff done, period.
That is a strange assumption. Plenty of people are writing code without being paid for it.
This is rhetorically a non sequitur. As in, if you get paid (X) then you get stuff done (Y). But if you're not paid (~X), then, ?
Not being paid doesn't mean one does or doesn't get stuff done, it has no bearing on it. So the parent wasn't saying anything about people who don't get paid, they can do whatever they want, but yes, at a job if you're paid, then you better get stuff done over bikeshedding.
Just don't bring an artisan to a slop fight.
For a long time that place has been "the commercial software marketplace". Let's all stop pretending that the code coming out of shops until now has been something you'd find at a guild craft expo. It's always been a ball of spit and duct tape, which is why AI code is often spit and duct tape.
I'm reminded of this: https://xkcd.com/1205/
Hell even art! Why should art even be a thing? We are machine driven by neurons, feelings do not exist.
Might be your life, it ain’t mine. I’m an artisan of code, and I’m proud to be one. I might finally use AI one of these days at work because I’ll have to, but I’ll never stop cherishing doing hand-crafted code.
That's funny you bring up those examples, because they have all moved on to the mass manufacturing era. You can still get artisan quality stuff but it typically costs a lot more and there's a lot less of it. Which is why mass-manufacturing won. Same is going to happen with software. LLMs are just the beginning.
I live in a city where there are new houses being built. They are ugly. Meanwhile, the ones that exist since a long time ago have charm and feel homely.
I don’t know, I‘m probably just a regular old man yelling at clouds, but I still think we’re going in the wrong direction. For pretty much everything. And for what? Money. Yay!
Hugh.
[0] I'm extremely aware that there are other contributing factors to housing shortages. Tax Billionaires, etc. My metaphor still works despite not being total.
The majority of code work is maintaining someone else's code. That's the reason it is "nicer".
There is also the matter of performance and reducing redundancy.
Two recent pulls I saw where it was AI generated did neither. Both attempted to recreate from scratch rather than using industry tested modules. One was using csv instead of polars for the intensive work.
So while they worked, they became an unmaintainable mess.
For a long time computers were so expensive they could only be used to do things that generate enough money to justify their purchase. But those days are long gone so computers are for much much more than just solving problems and getting stuff done. Code can be beautiful in its own right.
It sounds like you hate your job? To be sure, I've done plenty of grinding over my career as a software engineer but in fact I coded as a hobby before it turned into a career, I then continued to code on the side, now I am retired and code still.
Perhaps the artist in me that keeps at it.
Yeah, to hell with code reviews. The best years of my career were when I was given carte blanche control over an entire framework, etc. When code reviews came along coding at work sucked.
If anything, the code reviews killed the artisanship.
And it reminds me of a comment I saw in a thread 2 days ago. One about how RAPIDLY ITERATIVE the environment is now. There area lot of weekend projects being made over the knee of a robot nowadays and then instantly shared. Even OpenClaw is to a great extent, an example of that at its current age. Which comes in contrast to the length of time it used to take to get these small projects off the ground in the past. And also in contrast with how much code gets abandoned before and after "public release.
I'm looking at AI evangelists and I know they're largely correct about AI. I also look at what the heck they built, and either they're selling me something AI related, or have a bunch of defunct one-shot babies or mostly tools so limited in scope they server only themselves with it. We used to have a filter for these things. Salesmen always sold promises, so, no change there, just the buzzwords. But the cloutchasers? Those were way smaller in number. People building the "thing" so the "thing" exists mostly stopped before we ever heard of the "thing", because, turns out, caring about the "thing" does not actually translate to the motivation to getting it done. Or Maintain it.
What we have now is a reverse survivorship bias.
OOP stating they don't care about the state of their code during their public release, means I must assume they're a Cloutchaser. Either they don't care because they know they can do better which means they shared something that isn't their best, so their motivation with the comment is to highlight the idea. They just wanted to be first. Clout. Or they don't exactly concern with if they can as they just don't care about code in general and just want the product, be it good or be it not. They believe in the idea enough they want to ensure it exists, regardless of what's in the pudding. Which means to me, they also don't care to understand what's in the ingredient list. Which means they aren't best to maintain it. And that latter is the kind that, before the LLM slop was a concept in our minds, were precisely ones among the people who would give up half way through Making The "Thing".
See you in 16 weeks OP. I'll eat my shoe then.
Well, we make software, at any rate.
Most of the time that's pretty divorced from capital-E engineering, which is why we get to be cavalier about the quality of the result - let me know how you feel about the bridges and tunnels you drive on being built "as fast as possible, to hell with safety"
Faster delivery of a project being better for engineering is obviously one of the most important things because it gives you back time to invest in other parts of your project. All engineering is trade-offs. Being faster at developing basic code is better, the end. If nothing else you can now spend more time on requirements and on a second iteration with your customer.
That is until you get so deep in code debt that you cannot move anymore.
There is an equilibrium to be found. Faster is not always better, and trying to have every single line perfect is not good either.
The invention of calculators and computers also left the human artisan era of slide rules, calculation charts and accounting. If that's really what you care about, what are you even doing here?
As I said in my comment, no shade for writing the code with Claude. I do it too, every day.
I wasn’t “irked” by the readme, and I did read it. But it didn’t give me a sense that you had put in “time and effort” because it felt deeply LLM-authored, and my comment was trying to explore that and how it made me feel. I had little meaningful data on whether you put in that effort because the readme - the only thing I could really judge the project by - sounded vibe coded too. And if I can’t tell if there has been care put into something like the readme how can I tell if there’s been care put into any part of the project? If there has and if that matters - say, I put care into this and that’s why I’m doing a show HN about it - then it should be evident and not hidden behind a wall of LLM-speak! Or at least; that’s what I think. As I said in a sibling comment, maybe I’m already a dinosaur and this entire topic won’t matter in a few years anyway.
"I find your email deeply ensloping."
"This marketing campaign is going to enslope a lot of people."
"Feeling ensloped, I closed Instagram and looked out the window".
I get using AI, I do all day everyday day it feels like, but this comes off as not having respect for others time.
Just something that screams "I don't care about my product/readme page, why should you".
To be clear, no issue with using AI to write the actual program/whatever it is. It's just the readme/product page which super turns me off even trying/looking into it.
"I couldn't be bothered to write a proper README, so I had the AI do it"
Before the proof of work of code in a repo by default was a signal of a lot of thought going into something. Now this flood of code in these vibe coded projects is by default cheap and borderline meaningless. Not throwing shade or anything at coding assistants. Just the way it goes
Not one line of code I wrote 20 years ago has the same economic value as East German currency.
All code is social ephemera. Ethno objects. It lacks intrinsic value of something like indoor plumbing.
It's electrical state in a machine. Our only real goal was convince people the symbols on the screen were coupled to some real world value while it is 100% decoupled from whatever real physical quantity we are tracking.
We all been Frank from Always Sunny; we make money, line go up. We don't define truth. The churn of physics does that.
Why not, if they're making people read AI slop without checking it first? They deserve the shit-nudge to fix it.
Just consider what a bigger AI shit show vortex we are looking at, where this project only exists because of other ill considered AI slop projects. But at the same time, AI is not going anywhere and it does have the potential to massively “improve” things.
I believe it’s really just that we are going through adaptation pains, with everyone really just being sloppy for all the same kinds of reasons that people were sloppy before AI. It’s not like even the biggest corporations didn’t create sloppy messes before AI. Microsoft is a canonical example of this whole notion for basically its whole existence; poorly conceived, sloppily executed, even its core product line being so inherently insecure that it has not just spun up its own separate sectors of industries, but multiple sectors of industries around patching the security sieve called Microsoft, something akin to a monopoly on plumbing created from wire mesh.
It is making me think of how to increase the quality of my QA and final review process though. But frankly, I think we will soon fondly reminisce about a time when AI still produced slop and a human was actually useful and even needed to do QA and final review; as bleak as that sounds. I don’t see how that will not be the case within two years from now, and that’s probably being generous, as fast as things have been developing.
so long as this is commonplace I'd be extremely sceptical of anything with some LLM-style readmes and docs
the caveats to this is that LLMs can be trained to fool people with human-sounding and imperfectly written readmes, and that although humans can quickly oversee that things compile and seem to produce the expected outputs, there's deeper stuff like security issues and subtle userspace-breaking changes
track-record is going to see its importance redoubled
It isn’t “have it your way”, he graciously made code available, use it or leave it.
Might've been a typo they've since fixed.
>I am, as many senior-leaning engineers are, ambivalent about whether AI is making us more productive coders
(I'm a human btw)
Don't worry, bro. If enough people are like you, there will be fully automatic workflow to add typos into AI writing.
Assuming the written/generated text is well written/generated, of course.