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Can we toss in the work unsloth does too as an unsung hero?

They provide excellent documentation and they’re often very quick to get high quality quants up in major formats. They’re a very trustworthy brand.

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Yeah, they're the good guys. I suspect the open source work is mostly advertisements for them to sell consulting and services to enterprises. Otherwise, the work they do doesn't make sense to offer for free.
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Haha for now our primary goal is to expand the market for local AI and educate people on how to do RL, fine-tuning and running quants :)
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I hope that is exactly what is happening. It benefits them, and it benefits us.
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Oh thank you - appreciate it :)
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I'm a big fan of their work as well, good shout.
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Thank you!
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It's insane how much traffic HF must be pushing out of the door. I routinely download models that are hundreds of gigabytes in size from them. A fantastic service to the sovererign AI community.
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My fear is that these large "AI" companies will lobby to have these open source options removed or banned, growing concern. I'm not sure how else to explain how much I enjoy using what HF provides, I religiously browse their site for new and exciting models to try.
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They can try. I don't think they'll be able to get the toothpaste back in the tube. The data will just move our of the country.
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ModelScope is the Chinese equivalent of Hugging Face and a good back up. All the open models are Chinese anyways
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Not true! Mistral is really really good, but I agree that there isn't a single decent open model from the USA.
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Mistral is cool and I wish them success but it consistently ranks extremely low on benchmarks while still being expensive. Chinese models like DeepSeek might rank almost as low as Mistral but they are significantly cheaper. And Kimi is the best of both worlds with incredible benchmark results while still being incredibly cheap

I know things change rapidly so I'm not counting them out quite yet but I don't see them as a serious contender currently

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Yup, I have downloaded probably a terabyte in the last week, especially with the Step 3.5 model being released and Minimax quants. I wonder what my ISP thinks. I hope they don't cut me off. They gave me a fast lane, they better let me use it, lol
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Even fairly restrictive data caps are in the range of 6 Tb per month. P2P at a mere 100 Mb works out to 1 TiB per 24 hours.

Hypothetically my ISP will sell me unmetered 10 Gb service but I wonder if they would actually make good on their word ...

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Bandwidth is not that expensive. The Big 3 clouds just want to milk customers via egress. Look at Hetzner or CloudFlare R2 if you want to get get an idea of commodity bandwidth costs.
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> We still need good value hardware to run Kimi/GLM in-house

If you stream weights in from SSD storage and freely use swap to extend your KV cache it will be really slow (multiple seconds per token!) but run on basically anything. And that's still really good for stuff that can be computed overnight, perhaps even by batching many requests simultaneously. It gets progressively better as you add more compute, of course.

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> it will be really slow (multiple seconds per token!)

This is fun for proving that it can be done, but that's 100X slower than hosted models and 1000X slower than GPT-Codex-Spark.

That's like going from real time conversation to e-mailing someone who only checks their inbox twice a day if you're lucky.

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At a certain point the energy starts to cost more than renting some GPUs.
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Yeah, that is hard to argue with because I just go to OpenRouter and play around with a lot of models before I decide which ones I like. But there's something special about running it locally in your basement
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Aren't decent GPU boxes in excess of $5 per hour? At $0.20 per kWhr (which is on the high side in the US) running a 1 kW workstation 24/7 would work out to the same price as 1 hour of GPU time.

The issue you'll actually run into is that most residential housing isn't wired for more than ~2kW per room.

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Why doesn't HF support BitTorrent? I know about hf-torrent and hf_transfer, but those aren't nearly as accessible as a link in the web UI.
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> Why doesn't HF support BitTorrent?

Harder to track downloads then. Only when clients hit the tracker would they be able to get download states, and forget about private repositories or the "gated" ones that Meta/Facebook does for their "open" models.

Still, if vanity metrics wasn't so important, it'd be a great option. I've even thought of creating my own torrent mirror of HF to provide as a public service, as eventually access to models will be restricted, and it would be nice to be prepared for that moment a bit better.

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I thought of the tracking and gate questions, too, when I vibed up an HF torrent service a few nights ago. (Super annoying BTW to have to download the files just to hash the parts, especially when webseeds exist.) Model owners could disable or gate torrents the same way they gate the models, and HF could still measure traffic by .torrent downloads and magnet clicks.

It's a bit like any legalization question -- the black market exists anyway, so a regulatory framework could bring at least some of it into the sunlight.

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> Model owners could disable or gate torrents the same way they gate the models, and HF could still measure traffic by .torrent downloads and magnet clicks.

But that'll only stop a small part, anyone could share the infohash and if you're using the dht/magnet without .torrent files or clicks on a website, no one can count those downloads unless they too scrape the dht for peers who are reporting they've completed the download.

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> unless they too scrape the dht for peers who are reporting they've completed the download.

Which can be falsified. Head over to your favorite tracker and sort by completed downloads to see what I mean.

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Right, but that's already happening today. That's the black-market point.
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most of the traffic is probably from open weights, just seed those, host private ones as is
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how are all the private trackers tracking ratios?
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Wouldn’t it still provide massive benefits if they could convince/coerce their most popular downloaded models to move to torrenting?
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I still don't know why they are not running on torrent. Its the perfect use case.
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How can you be the man in the middle in a truly P2P environment?
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That would shut out most people working for big corp, which is probably a huge percentage of the user base. It's dumb, but that's just the way corp IT is (no torrenting allowed).
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It's a sensible option, even when not everyone can really use it. Linux distros are routinely transfered via torrent, so why not other massive, open-licensed data?
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I have terabytes of linux isos I got via torrents, many such cases!
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Oh as an option, yeah I agree it makes a ton of sense. I just would expect a very, very small percentage of people to use the torrent over the direct download. With Linux distros, the vast majority of downloads still come from standard web servers. When I download distro images I opt for torrents, but very few people do the same
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> very small percentage of people to use the torrent over the direct download

BitTorrent protocol is IMO better for downloading large files. When I want to download something which exceeds couple GB, and I see two links direct download and BitTorrent, I always click on the torrent.

On paper, HTTP supports range requests to resume partial downloads. IME, it seems modern web browsers neglected to implement it properly. They won’t resume after browser is reopened, or the computer is restarted. Command-line HTTP clients like wget are more reliable, however many web servers these days require some session cookies or one-time query string tokens, and it’s hard to pass that stuff from browser to command-line.

I live in Montenegro, CDN connectivity is not great here. Only a few of them like steam and GOG saturate my 300 megabit/sec download link. Others are much slower, e.g. windows updates download at about 100 megabit/sec. BitTorrent protocol almost always delivers the 300 megabit/sec bandwidth.

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With Linux distros they typically put the web link right on the main page and have a torrent available if you go look for it, because they want you to try their distro more than they want to save some bandwidth.

Suppose HF did the opposite because the bandwidth saved is more and they're not as concerned you might download a different model from someone else.

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