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by servo_sausage12 hours ago |

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by heisenbit11 hours ago|

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Accidents are not normal driving situations but edge cases.

by servo_sausage3 hours ago|

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Sort of; accidents are the absolute core of the product. They are rare, but they are the focus of the design.

By edge cases I mean scenarios like the lights going out in an underground garage; low vision due to colourful smoke or dust, or things like optical illusions or occlusion that a human would just need to remember.

Lidar can help, but not really enough to be worth it.

by UltraSane2 hours ago|

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Lidar is by far the most accurate source of range data. You need to explain why Waymo and Zoox use lidar in direct contradiction to what you claim.

by servo_sausage35 minutes ago|

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Urban operating domain combined with legacy approaches.

If I was designing a robotaxi 10 years ago I would use lidar, designing consumer vehicles for near future L3 it's no longer the best use of resources. I prefer more compute and cameras for the money.

Our current issues are now scene understanding and navigation; followed by parking. We get very little value from LIDAR in the driving cases, so much so that we don't even use it for active nav even on cars that have it. Only for training and parking.

by 9 hours ago|

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by UltraSane11 hours ago|

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Waymo is the best current autonomous driving system and Waymo uses LIDAR. This is because LIDAR is an incredibly effective sensor for accurate range data. Vision and Radar range data is much less accurate and reliable.

Waymo used LIDAR in the realtime control loop. It combines LiDAR, camera, and radar data in real time to build a 3D representation of the environment, which is constantly updated.

I fundamentally don't trust any level 4 system that doesn't use LIDAR

by servo_sausage3 hours ago|

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Yes, I am aware of waymo... What they do is impressive. However they don't have a product that works for all highways yet, that's the space I work in, and we have no real fixation on lidar... It's nice but not a requirement, and hard to justify the cost unless you can make sales because of it (and there are some places where this is the case, but not everywhere)

You don't need the mm precision of lidar very often; we find that it offers nothing at speed over radar; and in tight manoeuvres the cameras we need for human park assist and ultrasonics do well enough.

It in not more accurate; but it is more precise, but that doesn't really matter. (Radar gives you relative speed directly, this is more important than a very precise point at highway speeds).

by UltraSane2 hours ago|

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Waymo is level 4. I think currently it is nearly impossible to make a level 4 system as safe as Waymo without Lidar. Maybe new 4d imaging radar or THz radar could change this. Sensor modalities have physics-based limitations, current camera+radar isn't sufficient for L4.