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Valve and devices like the Steam Deck and soon the Steam Machine are also grabbing the gaming segment away from Windows. Distros like Bazzite also are enticing to those technically inclined enough to boot from a USB drive and run the simple installer.
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It isnt a huge amount of people yet but those things do plant the seed that grow over the bext decade.
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There are an awful lot of groups installing Linux on Win 10 cast offs around the world.

My uncle runs one in Bradford on Avon and they are slapping on an OS for you whilst you supp tea and chat. Often, the user-agent is set to something Microsoftie in the browser. If necessary Edge is installed but that is frowned on 8)

I have not heard of this MacBook Neo thing ... Why would ? I only own a little IT company and hang around on HN.

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Good to hear Bradford On Avon mentioned, the town where I grew up. Is there a link to the place where they're installing Linux?

The Tithe Barn in Bradford On Avon was the medieval equivalent to an Amazon warehouse!

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2 things:

1. The usage statistics don't reflect your anecdotal Linux usage; Linux desktop/laptop usage share has not grown that significantly in 20 years and Windows remains quite dominant.

2. MacBook Neo was widely discussed on HN not very long ago, and I'd think if anything an owner of an IT company would be more aware of it than an average HN user. It's definitely going to shake up the market for lower-end laptops.

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1. The devil is in the details: How are those stats gathered? Many, if not most Linux users hide their OS affiliation via USER-AGENT

2. Missed it or perhaps blanked it. It really will not shake up the lower end because anyone wanting a lower end laptop (whatever that is) will insist on it running Windows and not Apples.

There is a really good reason why car manufacturers run multiple marques - the budget, standard and premium ones. Attempting to put the Apple "premium shine" on a budget effort may backfire spectacularly (and devalue the entire brand) or maybe they will somehow manage to re-invent marketing.

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You really should learn about the new MacBook.

I’m not sure what market you are in, but this thing will absolutely upend the low end market in North America. This is a MacBook which handily competes with used/refurbished M1 airs for performance, but sells for less. Hell, it sells for less than an iPhone.

They have managed to keep the build quality without really sacrificing anything you would expect on an entry level computer.

My experience with the low end of laptops is that people can’t even tell you what OS they have (chrome or windows). People are going to see this and think that apple makes good phones, good tablets, and now good computers for affordable prices. The existence of the c model iPhones never “cheapened” the high end models. The existence of the iPad does not cheapen the iPad Pro. All the reviews and media basically are people wondering how they managed to create such a high quality product at this price point.

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The Neo is a quality laptop. It's not a cheap laptop with Apple lipstick.

Apple made a significant number of tradeoffs to reach $500, but for a budget user, they're reasonable tradeoffs.

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It doesn't have the haptic trackpad and I feel liek that's a dealbreaker.
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For you maybe but seems a reasonable compromise to hit the price point and I bet you’d miss it less than you think
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It's also not at all new that Apple's had a budget laptop
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When did you ckeck last? They are everywhere, even Bestbuy sells them: https://noai.duckduckgo.com/?kax=-1&q=pre-installed+Linux+PC...
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Best Buy has a marketplace of 3rd party sellers.

I guess you might be able to order one or something?

I can not walk into my local best buy and get a computer running Linux.

It's a moot point anyway, since you'll usually have to pay more for a Linux laptop vs buying a Windows one and installing it yourself.

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I bought two Linux pre-installed PC's last October. They were €350 cheaper apiece than the same Windows PC (presumably because the Windows machines came with a lot of additional software installed idk).
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That might be what they think. I just installed windows and it had countless dialogs. Most have a reason to exist but it's a lot of work. The Ubuntu live usb on the other hand just boots into the desktop environment. It just works? There is nothing to do?
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But this also mean you are not consulted on some critical configuration choice and that you are left alone wondering what to do next.

Earliest Macintoshs in the 1990 launched a tutorial on first boot until you explicitly finished or skipped it. This was a wonderful experience as a kid and still warm my heart today thinking back of it.

Today's Mac only display "tips", "what's new" after first boot or major update because people are generally more computer literate. But (unless Liquid Glass changed that too) they never gave on this mantra that the OS should guide newcomers.

So yeah I think Linux distro have room to do better.

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Puppy Linux and Fedora also have sane defaults.

I hadn’t tried Fedora until late last year, and was very impressed. Came across as highly polished and complete.

Hadn’t tried Pupply Linux until a couple months ago, and it’s now my new favourite. I’m now running it on a small form factor desktop HP with no internal drive.

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System76 sells some pretty nice computers with Linux preinstalled. Not to mention every Chromebook is a Linux machine.
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> Not to mention every Chromebook is a Linux machine.

.. which might need a bit of tinkering to install Linux on. Just because it runs a kernel doesn't mean it will be usable out of the box.

For example this: https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/1nc1jui/how_to_actua...

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I think GP's point is that a chromebook is a perfectly cromulent apternative to windows, running normal ChromeOS, for users looking for a simple web/docs/email machine.
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Yes they absolutely can. Nowadays it's as simple as clicking "install" from inside windows to try a linux distro
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"from inside Windows"

That's a problem right there.

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What can possibly be wrong with giving people a different option to try Linux? If it’s not right for you, who cares because you have other options? The constant negativity is so boring.
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This is why Linux doesn't exist on more PCs - this is a problem.

Imagine a plumber talking about how much better his toilet is than everyone else's - bc everyone believes only a plumber can install it (which was truth for most of Linux history and general PC users).

Nobody took it seriously bc they took it as mostly an odd humblebrag for niche Windows haters.

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Reminds me of https://www.terrylove.com/crtoilet.htm and the UltraMax
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Site's been slashdotted, I'm getting nothing but 504s when I try to load it. There's an archived copy at https://archive.is/30a07
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Haha, yes - exactly like that!

"My favorite toilet is the Ultramax by TOTO." , "Its model number is "xxx-xx-etc" - that man definitely believes in Ultramax!

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Thank you for sharing this treasure. Going into my regular reading Hall of Fame curriculum.
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Not when Windows is actively pushing people away. New computers are a tiny market, people stay with their old computers for decades now.
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Those and System76 of course. Plus the SteamDeck is Linux, as are a number of other handheld gaming systems. The new Steam Machine is as well.
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Starting at 1700 USD, vs 500$ for a Neo or a very capable Windows PC on sale.

My personal favorite is a lightly used Thinkpad, you can get a nice Linux machine for under 400$. But it's still a lot of work for most people.

If a Ubuntu update does something weird, what do you do with your 1700$ System 76 laptop ?

With your Neo, you go to the Apple store and they'll sort it out.

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If Windows update does something weird what do you do?
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Correct. And they usually don’t install windows on their computer either. The 8 year old laptop they got at Best Buy had it pre installed. So if Linux is going to go mainstream it’ll be because stores start offering PCs with Linux that are at a $140 discount.
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Framework, System76, and a few others do offer it now but yeah only as a niche dev thing.

I think there is a real chance that there will be an EU push for that to be made available as a way of gradually decoupling national security interests from the US, for obvious reasons.

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Normal people can definitely install an OS. Last weekend I set aside time help a friend install CachyOS. They'd never used a terminal before and wanted some help.

When I called them, they had already set it up and was playing Risk of Rain 2. They started streaming for me on the Discord Flatpak they installed from the app store.

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Define normal. I would argue at least 75% of the US population has zero interest in learning how to install a new OS, let alone actually do so themselves.

I say this as a decades-long Linux user (who has tried to evangelize it many times).

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Gamers are one of the few demographics still buying new Windows PCs. There are now so many discord servers and subreddits filled with people discussing which Linux distro to use.

Honestly for your average home consumer, there isn't much need for a Windows PC now days.

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I can't drive stick.

This doesn't mean if someone gave me a manual car I wouldn't try to learn.

If your around a bunch of car people then it's much easier to over estimate how many people will want to drive stick.

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I would argue its close to 99% of the population. Technical people like us usually live in a bubble.
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No we don't... right guys?!
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> has zero interest in learning

Well I can agree with that, but that's not the same thing as being incapable of doing it. Both of my parents could easily install Linux, it's infantilizing to argue that they can't fill out a user wizard and select a drive to wipe.

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> and select a drive to wipe

You are vastly overestimating the percentage of the population that knows what a "drive" is. Not saying that's a good thing, but it's the reality.

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You don't have to know. The Calamares installer annotates your partitions and explains what will happen in natural language. If you can order a pizza online, you can install Linux.
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I don’t disagree that installing windows/macos and certain Linux distros can be stupid easy but to a layman it’s daunting.

In my experience most people who use a computing device may be able to tell me “this is window” or “this is Mac” by virtue of the branding being all over the stuff but for all intents and purposes these things are appliances.

In the same way most people except ambitious DIYers don’t rip apart their 500-1000 dollar washing machine to replace a worn belt the call a repair guy. Or in your case, have a buddy who knows how to do it.

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These days it's as easy as running a powershell script. There is 0 functional barrier to installing Linux from any windows machine. Soon the same will be true for the Neo.
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Normal people will be expected to upgrade to Windows 12 next year after seeing "your hardware isn't supported" Windows Update messages, without any idea of what an NPU is or why it's a system requirement to receive a system upgrade.

I think this is in response to slightly abnormal people trying Steam OS and other user-friendly Linux distros as they grow increasingly annoyed with Windows 11 antics.

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