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I use to have a routine with a friend where we paid close attention to the table manners of his wealthy upper class relatives. Then when they did something wrong we would point it out loudly as if it was the end of the world. Best was 3+ mistakes in a row. Bonus points if you can point out the mistake and add something like we are not in Belgium!
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There is a wiki.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eating_utensil_etiquette

Edit: The wiki on chopsticks has an etiquette section broken down by country.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chopsticks#Chopstick_customs,_...

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Fascinating. The difference of the American style where you switch the fork between the left and right hands reminded me of a similar difference in fishing gear - where Americans (to my understanding) mostly cast with their right hand and then switch the rod to their left hand when retrieving, while in Europe (or at least in Italy) you usually just keep the rod in the right hand instead of switching.
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  The difference between the American and European styles has been used as plot point in fictional works, including the 1946 film O.S.S. and the 2014 series Turn: Washington's Spies.[5] In both works, using the wrong fork etiquette threatens to expose undercover agents. 
Nuts. Apparently I have been a German spy all this time. I don't have time to waste swapping a fork around.
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I’m not even sure what the technical etiquite is. As a right handed American it just seems more natural to have my knife in my right hand but if I’m just using a fork I tend to switch that to my right hand. Didn’t even think about it until right now.
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American zigzagging utensil acrobatics always seemed like a lot of nonsense to me. It looks bad and fiddly.
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Tarantino has a bit about it in inglorious bastards.
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Yes! Hardly anyone knows it all, and even people who know the basics adjust their behavior based on the situation. Eating out with your high school buddies requires a different level of observance than the dinner at which your girlfriend is introducing you to her parents.
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That's not really a coherent statement.

If people don't even know it, it's not part of the culture.

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Who are the “people” that you are referring to?

This makes total sense to me. There is no monolithic “culture”— there are multiple related cultures, differing little in essence but differing greatly in the details. And each individual is usually only partially ignorant anyway.

Culture changes, too, and asymmetrically. So the “done thing” may be done be very few anymore.

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I guess I was talking about the people that don't know about the culture you guys say they are part of.
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For some reason, you're reading things into the original statement that are not there. "An etiquette exists in a culture" does not mean everyone has to follow or even be aware of it.
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I feel like there was a brief period when middle class came to existence and started mimicking customs of the upper class, which were very complicated because the upper class was mostly bored and had invented this shit to kill the time. Then two things happened:

1. Upper class stopped being formal because formality stopped being a signal of upper class.

2. Middle class stopped having social gatherings in general.

So, like, "it is a part of the culture" in the same sense as traditional outfits are a part of the culture - most people have very vague awareness, nobody really cares.

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> invented this shit to kill the time

This is unnecessarily flippant, trivializing, and reductive.

The upper classes had the time and position to refine manners. I think one mistake people make is to think manners are arbitrary nonsense. But manners, when fitting, honor the self and others with conduct that suits the dignity of the human person and functions as a sign of that dignity. You cannot tell me that a man hunched over a table cramming food down his throat gaping at a television is no different than one who eats according to the above custom of etiquette.

I’m not one for stiff artifice especially when slavishly applied, but I don’t think manners as such are arbitrary. That nobody cares would explain why so many people look like slobs and behave like boors.

If we begin with human nature and then view the virtues as perfections that actualize the fullness of that nature, then it becomes clearer that some behavior is more fitting and honored better by certain practices.

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Is is also topic od relevance.

Poland has honorifics that are probably on par to those in Japan, but since the language is difficult to learn and frankly speaking nobody cares about Poland, barely anyone even knows this.

Also lots of corporations prefer "american style" approach of just refering by name (even to the CEO), so this dissapears.

Probably could write few pages about this, but nobody would care to read.

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I'm interested in learning more about this! As a Finn I love Poland and have been there multiple times (most recently just two weeks ago). I don't know the language, but details like honorifics reveal interesting tidbits of the culture and society. I guess I should prompt an LLM about it.
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>> Poland has honorifics that are probably on par to those in Japan

> I'm interested in learning more about this!

It's very simple, actually.

For strangers, you use the third person and the title « Pan » or « Pani » (Sir or Lady). You avoid pronouns, « The Lady has forgotten the Lady's purse on the table ».

For friends, you use the t-form ("ty", thou), and use a diminutive rather than the full name. « Johny, you've forgotten your bag on the table ».

For work colleagues, you traditionally use « Pan » or « Pani » with the full form of the first name. « Mister John, the mister's bag is on the table ». This is perceived as old-fashioned, and is increasingly being replaced by the t-form.

The v-form has fallen into disuse, as it was promoted by the Communist regime.

(The old-fashioned honorifics still exist, but they are only used in administrative correspondence: the only time when you're "the respectable gentleman" is when you need to pay taxes.)

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I wonder what will become of our honorifics in upcoming decades. Our language changes so much under influence of English, imported sociopolitical trends that surely made some of our bards spin in their graves.

On a side note, I find interesting is that Czech language still naturally uses that plural form we abandon due to popularity of pan/pani forms.

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While historically Polish honorifics are one of the most elaborate in Europe because of its noble culture, I wouldn’t say they are as elaborate as the Japanese, at least not in the same manner.
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