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by microtonal9 hours ago |
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upvoteby icoder9 hours ago|
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Yeah I think this basically answers this entire sub-thread
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upvoteby _osud9 hours ago|
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Hungary can send an EIO to France or Germany, and the consistent trend has been to reduce the ability of executing states to review these requests.
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upvoteby krzyk8 hours ago|
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Sure, those EIO will be held if Hungary starts applying EIO that it got (e.g. for former Ministry of Justice of Poland which awaits trail, he sits comfortably in Hungary).

Let's hope elections there will change Orban into something saner.

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upvoteby foldr8 hours ago|
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There’s a concerning trend of EIOs issued by Hungary being enforced in France and Germany? What would be an example of this?
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upvoteby _osud8 hours ago|
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This is the best I can give you off the top of my head, but look at which countries are the most active in eurojust :) https://www.eurojust.europa.eu/ar2020/data-annex

An LLM can probably find some better links though.

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upvoteby foldr8 hours ago|
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I think you might be missing the ‘concerning’ part. Which specific cases are concerning? I don’t find it inherently concerning that people can’t escape justice by crossing the Hungarian border, Bonnie and Clyde style.
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upvoteby ApolloFortyNine8 hours ago|
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Too explicitly spell it out, op is saying here that if any one of the 27 countries in the EU decides you are breaking one of their laws, they can have 1 of the other 26 enforce an EIO.
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upvoteby _osud7 hours ago|
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Which would be perfectly fine if your local jurisdiction could still properly review those foreign requests.
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upvoteby foldr7 hours ago|
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EIOs are subject to a dual criminality requirement. So it’s not as if arbitrary Hungarian laws can be applied in France via EIOs. And of course, we all know this is not happening, which is why we get radio silence from the people who are ‘concerned’ about this whenever specifics are requested.
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upvoteby _osud7 hours ago|
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>EIOs are subject to a dual criminality requirement

Dual criminality requirement only applies to non-Annex D crimes. Which is... not many crimes. You seem awfully confident for someone so ill-informed.

>And of course, we all know this is not happening

How would you know that it isn't happening? EIOs are not public!

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upvoteby foldr6 hours ago|
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Annex D is a list of things that are crimes pretty much everywhere.

Not sure what to make of the claim that Hungary might theoretically be enforcing Hungarian law in France. It seems surprising that no-one has noticed any specific consequences of this that you can point to.

The EIO is mostly just a formalization and standardization of a bunch of ad-hoc processes that were already in place. Law enforcement agencies in different European countries do try to assist each other, on the whole.

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upvoteby _osud6 hours ago|
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What you're missing is the erosion of the ability of the executing states to say things like "hey this is sketchy, we think this crime might not have happened", "hey the police department in this particular city is notoriously untrustworthy", or "hey this prosecutor is widely known in the local press to be corrupt and owns a collection of ferraris".

Now foreign authorities are trusted by default and significant parts of their reasoning are not subject to review, that's bad.

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upvoteby foldr3 hours ago|
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So provide some concrete examples of what you’re talking about, if it’s a real concern.
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upvoteby _osud8 hours ago|
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Oh no, that's totally up to you. If you're happy with the courts in your country not being able to review the requests sent from Hungary, that's cool. Without transparent judicial review, how could we even know if the cases are concerning?
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upvoteby foldr7 hours ago|
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EIOs are subject to review by the recipient state. It seems that you can’t point to a single relevant example of a concerning EIO from Hungary.
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upvoteby _osud7 hours ago|
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"Subject to review" means little more than "is the form filled correctly?", it certainly does not mean second-guessing by the courts in the executing state.

Like, yeah, your EIO will be rejected if you don't tick any of the crime-category boxes in the form.

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