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> Heh, lucky you, at least you get a message. My ISP just drops traffic to the affected IPs. No ping, no traceroute, just a spinner in the browser until it says "page not found".

This is generally how the GFW works in China. Instead of an overbearing nanny like a school or corporation's DNS blocker, you're left with a sense that you're on a version of the Internet that is just intermittently and somewhat mysteriously broken.

And indeed, in China, a lot of things that probably aren't fully intended to be blocked are not reliably accessible. Implementation varies, so you get strange routing and peering issues. It feels like an Internet that isn't fully formed, that hasn't finished coming together yet.

Nation states and corporations obviously gain some things sometimes by having Internet censorship/blocking frameworks in place. Maybe, sometimes, ordinary people even benefit, too, if it helps shut down illegal and genuinely harmful businesses.

But it feels like the whole world is gradually trending towards more and more Internet censorship without realizing that we are un-building a miraculous thing that took enormous effort and cleverness and expense to build. I wish we could think about this not only in terms of freedom (and we absolutely should think about it in terms of freedom), but how we are disintegrating the infrastructure of communication and computing.

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Your last paragraph: it is sad. But we had successful global networks before the Internet (the PSTN, telegraph) and we'll certainly have global networks after this at some point in human history. Perhaps in the the time between the Internet and what's next, the world will become a bit more mature about a few things.
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Those predecessor networks weren’t problem free. Many conversations to “interesting” places were monitored.

The counter-reaction to this era will include additional communication control.

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this is teleological thinking. it's not necessarily the case that things get better over time.
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[dead]
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> But we had successful global networks before the Internet (the PSTN, telegraph)

These were ripe with espionage, wiretapping and sabotage. Access to it used to be highly restricted as well, up until the 90s for example you were only allowed to connect government-licensed modems to the German PSTN directly.

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> These were ripe with espionage, wiretapping and sabotage.

Just like today's Internet. BGP spoofing, CALEA, DDoS.

> Access to it used to be highly restricted as well ...

And this is where the regression or "downfall" is beginning. Access to the Internet (as in ability to send/receive arbitrary data to the wider Internet) is something I bet is going to be increasingly restricted, but most people won't notice because they don't understand the difference between apps and the Internet.

I'd be surprised if direct access to the Internet is possible for consumers in the next 10 years. Everything will have to be through approved apps (age assurance is going to be the catalyst) that work over registered tunnels contracted through ISPs, if there isn't an outright blurring or merger between the concepts of phone/CPE, ISP and CDN. Your non-tech layperson will not know any difference whatsoever if all they use are their phone plan, streaming/banking apps and Facebook.

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There was also no way for a normal person to easily and cheaply communicate with 20 million people in realtime.
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> a version of the Internet that is just intermittently and somewhat mysteriously broken.

That's actually just how the Internet is. Nothing to do with the great firewall.

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All people affected should file a complaint with your ISP and with Oficina de Atención al Usuario de Telecomunicaciones claiming financial loss for arbitrary service censorship.
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I've been filing complaints since a year ago, told others to do the same too, nothing happens. There been moments I've meant to deploy fixes to issues but I cannot, because some tooling goes offline.

I've claimed financial loss, claimed sanity loss and everything in-between, but I'm afraid unless something reaches the European/EU courts, Spain will continue to be in the pocket of the La Liga owners.

Straight up fucking censorship with wide collateral being completely accepted in a Western country in 2026, beyond comprehension how this is allowed.

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Whenever I get a little down over how much power unelected corporations have in my country, I can at least cheer myself up a little by being thankful that something as stupid as football doesn't have enough power here to control whether or not I have internet access.
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Ignorance is a bliss, agree :) Sometimes we all need to force ourselves into that so we can get a bit more joy.
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La Liga is basically operating like an "unelected corporation" as well.
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It would if it were bigger business in your country. Try torrenting an MCU movie and see what happens to your ISP account.
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Someone in Texas torrenting an MCU slop doesn’t disconnect me from half the Internet.
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If anyone who’s capable in Spain set a petition or the relevant steps and put it on HN. I’m pretty sure any Spanish resident in HN would be more than happy to take part even if it means to send a Bizum for the cause.

(Sadly as living in Spain for about a year I’m still not in such place to raise this or understand the full steps needed)

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how do you make claims, here: https://usuariosteleco.digital.gob.es/? Can't find a way of doing it with Cl@ve
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I've used this: https://usuariosteleco.digital.gob.es/reclamaciones/telefoni...

Used my digital certificate (which is installed in the browser), but AFAIK, you can use Cl@ve on that page above too.

In the past, I've cited BOE-A-2022-10757 (https://www.boe.es/buscar/act.php?id=BOE-A-2022-10757), done a reclamació for the repeated loss of lawful access on my connection, and a denúncia about a broader overblocking practice affecting access to lawful services.

Also, supposedly, we should be able to make claims to CNMC as well, but haven't figured out how. Also of course, been complaining to my ISP every time it happens too.

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Because the EU as a whole is quite happy to censor and generally wield the same tricks as "non-Western" countries in their desires to combat misinformation (however our EU bureaucrats define it), child abuse materials (see Chat Control that thing is not going to go away), and hatred (oh boy).

We've never guaranteed the right to free speech and because we haven't it's a slippery slope all the way back down to the furnaces of autocracy we sprang from.

The Spanish president has come out on record saying we don't deserve anonymity on the internet.

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It would be great if there was a webpage with clear instructions on how to do this, maybe fill out a few questions and get a printable pdf you can mail, or at least telling you how to file an online complaint. Making complaints very low friction will lead to more of those and perhaps more attention to the issue.

Snail mail uses up physical space so it might get more attention, it would be hilarious to see news reports of truckloads of complaint mail being dumped in front of the whatever office.

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> It would be great if there was a webpage with clear instructions on how to do this, maybe fill out a few questions and get a printable pdf you can mail, or at least telling you how to file an online complaint. Making complaints very low friction will lead to more of those and perhaps more attention to the issue.

This is a great idea, we definitively should make this happen! If people are curious on collaborating on something, reach out, email in profile (English or Spanish emails welcome!).

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Sadly, it won't accomplish anything. La Liga seems to have enough political power in the country to bury all of that. Probably bribing everyone involved.
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Corruption at that level could mean organized crime. Is there a culture of betting through illegal bookies, are they fixing matches, or ¿porque no los dos?
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Well, I think when the organized crime is registered as proper businesses and they have the judges on their side even if the law isn't, I think we just call that "for-profit capitalism" nowadays.
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penalti para el real madrid!
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Yep, flood them with complaints.
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At this point the protests should be against the matches themselves. But let's be honest: nobody cares anymore.
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It's ridiculous and wrong what LaLiga does. But it's also a weakeup call to consider ditching cloudflare's centralization.
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The companies relying on cloudflare won't be in Spain. If you buy a GPS tracker by a Canadian company, developed in India, manufactured in China, they are unlikely to know, even it they cared, that a single country that accounts for a tiny percentage of their sales breaks fundamental internet infrastructure on the regular "because fútbol y dinero".

And when purchasing a product, there's no "bill of materials" telling you about the services it relies on, beyond "internet connection" at best.

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>fundamental internet infrastructure

I'm not saying this situation isn't bullshit, but the bigger problem is that CloudFlare is now "fundamental internet infrastructure". This is precisely the situation that the internet was designed to prevent.

Yesterday I got stuck in endless CloudFlare CAPTCHA's, trying to access theretroweb.com. I had to give up. Many such cases. I hate CloudFlare so much, it's unreal.

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> This is precisely the situation that the internet was designed to prevent

Right, but on the other hand, our constitution and laws are supposed to give us the rights to access a internet where the government cannot block entire companies who host websites, because a few bad websites are hosted there.

Not to mention all us freelancers, contractors and just in general computing users, who sometimes want to continue working although 90% of the country is watching football, we should be able to do so even if pirates use Cloudflare for shitty stuff.

I agree that Cloudflare sucks, people should avoid defaulting to putting Cloudflare in front of absolutely everything they do and I too get stuck at the CAPTCHAs sometimes. But that doesn't remove the fact that Cloudflare, just like every other lawful company, should be allowed to be visited during La Liga matches.

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I’d love for a way to put all my sites behind Cloudflare only during La Liga matches.
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> there are testimonies of smart home devices like anti-theft alarms or automatic doors, that stop working whenever [...] because their backends rely on Cloudflare.

The fault here lies 100% with horribly designed IoT devices that turn into bricks when they lose internet connection.

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Perhaps its time to put a VPN into all your CI jobs
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You can't fight political issues with clever technical solutions
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Yes you can. Fight with clever technical solutions and the politics will follow once the solution becomes common or displays its usefulness. It is in fact the most effective way to fight dumb political issues.
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In my country (Russia) the politics followed, now the ISPs block the OpenVPN and wireguard packets. And sometimes the white list mode is enabled, so you cannot connect, with your clever custom VPN solution, to a host outside the country
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You should be able to use things like sshuttle or even tunnel through HTTPS whatever you want, right? As you can control both sides of the tunnel with encryption (comes by default), no MITM-ing unless you are forced to use solutions that install and eavesdrop on your secure traffic too.
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1) they do protocol sniffing, and any inconsistency (including statistical) gets you blocked 2) "white list mode" which engaged sometimes (poorly implemented atm), means nothing goes outside of country at all (means 99.9% of everything is broken). They really want to become North Korea soon
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And eventually even a worm will turn.
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It depends on what the political system is trying to do.

A VPN won't help against government blanket outages, where the target is complete control of communications, and attempts to circumvent may result in extreme penalty. In this case, where the government policy is to stop unauthorized streaming, and collatoral damage is acceptable, a VPN hosted in a more favorable location is likely to work enough. Afaik, I don't think Spain has the political appetite to block VPNs and such during football matches.

You can still fight the political issue with political means, but in the mean time, you can also get work done.

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> Afaik, I don't think Spain has the political appetite to block VPNs and such during football matches

Unfortunately nobody is quite sure what appetite they have, because LaLiga is doing this all on the back of a relatively narrow judicial ruling that hasn't been reviewed in a long time

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That became a popular refrain at some point but the truth of it varies. In fact many political issues are brought about by technical changes so obviously the reverse must be possible as well.

What technical solutions can't change is the underlying social dynamics.

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Even that is IMO untrue: "technical solutions" have indeed changed society at large quite significantly; eg. "social media" is one very influential example, "smart phone" is another, "internet" itself, etc.
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Aren't you agreeing with me? None of those things changed the underlying social dynamics that humans exhibit but they nonetheless affected widespread social and political change.
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That's actually part of rebellion modus operandi, so totally something realistic. But not within the frame of law and not in the sweet position of someone away from the "I'll die for the just cause" mindset.
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can you rephrase your idea please. What's realistic, fighting stupid laws or corporations with a VPN? Yes, but not for long. They are always stronger than you, they can switch from blacklisting to whitelisting and your VPN becomes useless.

What is this "sweet position" you talk about?

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Sorry for being unclear.

I was trying to refer to an actual rebel position, which is actors which use illegal practices to achieve their goals agaisnt institutions in place. Which might have the cool attitude imagery attached to it, but which is certainly not an easy one in reality.

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You totally can, that's why bittorrent still exists and works fine.
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