IMO, if it were just the efficiency gains on the table (which are substantial - ~20-30% over AV1), I'd say that AV2 isn't worth it. The biggest thing it does add though is multi-stream support, which will be a big win for VR and live sports. The other fun thing is you can send an alpha channel as a separate stream, which the file will then composite for proper transparent video support.
It isn’t required for content distribution platforms which aren’t realtime and the cost of encode is easily made up by hundreds of thousands of streams.
With low enough resolution, framerate and bitrate, you can get a quality stream without significant encoding artifacts compared to any other codec. It is in production right now and has been for a while.
The tradeoff CPU / bandwidth is quite advantageous in situations like this. And no, AV1 HW encoders cannot usually be used, they are not designed for a tight bitrate control or realtime communications like software encoding is usually.
You really want hardware decoding on mobile, otherwise you end up with 40 minutes battery life. Fortunately, for typical videoconference resolutions, VP8 and H.264 are just fine. AV1 is nice to have, though, due to excellent support for synthetic content (screen sharing), and for scalable video coding (a much more elegant solution than simulcast, IMHO).
In the world I live in, the general plan is to stick to VP8 and H.264 for the time being, and to skip to AV1 when it's universally available on mobile. I haven't seen any features of AV2 which would justify waiting for it.
It just doesn’t make sense and will result in extraordinary power/battery drainage at best, or output that’s worse than hardware encoding.
The only way you could get AV1 to software encode in realtime AND low latency on a mid-range Android chip is by disabling or skipping nearly all of the compression/encoding features that make it good at low bitrate.
Yeah but, half jokingly, Zoom does that (draining the battery in an hour) already :P
I would have thought this would be a part of the container format rather than the video codec?
Unless chipmakers port the AV2 design to older, cheaper nodes, it’s just not happening for average users. We’ll probably see some Chinese TV chip makers throw in an AV2 decoder just to check a box, but as an actual encoder? I wouldn't count on it anytime soon.
You need hardware encoders for things like cameras because they need to encode in real time since the buffer would quickly overflow otherwise.
- Video calls
- Screen/webcam recording
- Live streaming
- Real-time transcoding for media servers (don’t know much about this but I’ve heard it’s a thing)
- Game streaming
- Video editing (making exporting less frustrating)
In other words, unless on smart phones, don't expect broadly distributed AV2 encoding hardware.
If it does happen on PC, it will be most likely some courtesy of the hardware chip designers.
Are you sure this isn't just “things I do are commonplace, and things I don't are incredibly niche”?
> likely will remain so til ~2028 when the first av2 hardware accelerated chips start dropping
This might sound dumb, but whats the point if its intended for slower devices, but those slower devices don't even exist yet?
They can't adopt it if it doesn't exist.
This doesn't take away anything. It's a new standard.
Based on your argument, one should add new safety standards to cars like seat belts, because old cars might not have them.
But to your point,
While they might not be required to retrofit, one shouldn't stop defining new safety standards.
One shouldn't add new safety standards*
writing before coffee...
And HW acceleration is generally a preset baked in version of the encoder or decoder. These are mostly codec specific.
So, no using hardware from previous versions.
Now, you can see some software that tries to use the GPU itself, instead of the dedicated hardware acceleration, to decode, but that isn't the HW accelerated, and may not operate in real time.
At the same time, that will consume much more power, eliminating some of the advantages or the pure HW rendition, especially important for mobile.
I could see an argument being made for encoding, if it is 2x or faster than the CPU, but I haven't looked at any in a while, so don't know the speeds.
This is what makes it viable on mobile devices where system responsiveness and power efficiency are high priority.
Generally these hardware decoders haven’t been retoolalble.
This was supported in H.264 MVC but only saw real use for 3D movies on physical BluRays. With almost no content available outside that.
Take a look at AV1 itself, you can't even say it's really ubiquitous on all hardware. It's quite well along in adoption compared to early days, but some mobile devices are still lacking hardware acceleration for it.
Unless they have hardware encoder and decoder design done in parallel, otherwise it would be 2028 before a hardware block design is done and 2030 for the earliest product to ship with it. In reality I think 2031 or 2032 is more likely.
And I have been saying the same for quite some time that 20-30% for a generational codec improvement isn't worth it. I think they originally aimed at 50%, and then 40% and then 30%.
AV1 supports it too ?
e.g. if you check in 4 directions to see if you can reuse a chunk then make it check in 8 or 16.
Faster encoders will have smart heuristics on when to use these new abilities and when to skip them but the reference encoder will try everything in a dumb way to eke out a tiny win to maximize a theoretical advantage and map out the extreme best case.
JPEG XL would like a word.
* https://developer.apple.com/documentation/avfoundation/avvid...
* https://petapixel.com/2024/09/18/why-apple-uses-jpeg-xl-in-t...
Which kind of encode settings do you suggest for conversion from high resolution RAWs or JPEGs ?
1. Lossless AVIF is a joke often beaten by WebP and even PNG. Even worse for grayscale.
2. Chroma subsampling remains a bad idea for still images unless the resolution is high enough to hide the artifacts.
3. Tooling is the worst part, AV1 encoders are basically focused 99% on video and leave a measly 1% to image; unlike JXL, of course. SVT-AV1 still doesn't do YUV444 and libaom was unusable. Fortunately, the unpaid enthusiasts were here: https://giannirosato.com/blog/post/the-multimedia-renaissanc... (and more recently https://giannirosato.com/blog/post/oavif/)
I don't see AVIF being used for lossless, which is the largest reason I'd prefer JXL to win: one codec to rule them all sure is an alluring future.
JPEG is woefully outdated with the lack of HDR and modern compression, HEIF can’t be used without paying a license, webp was designed just for extremely efficient small images rather than local storage, avif I’ve never seen used ever, and JPEG XL is on track to be the next major format.
I agree we don’t need an avif2, but until jpeg xl there really weren’t any decent alternatives for jpeg.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_graphics_file_fo...
Pretty much only the ones I listed previously are serious contenders in the space right now.
People keep calling the AV-family codecs “royalty free,” but in practice they increasingly look like a legal and financial gamble.
I've never understood why some people seem to cheer this on like a corporation owning some maths was their local sports team.
For a while I assumed some people had put in a lot of effort on H.264 encoders and so the digital sharecroppers were angry and jealous that someone might be advocating for messy freedom.
But some people seem to just enjoy the thought of corporations putting a tax on video distribution.
Luckily those greedy corporations have repeatedly shot themselves on the foot and so their influence is waning.
And the alternative is… ?
For H.265 there are two HEVC licensing pools you have to sign with plus at least two non-pool companies:
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Efficiency_Video_Coding#P...
Going with a non-AVx codec is no less complicated and fraught with lawsuit risk AFAICT.
As opposed to what, like HEVC? Where you need to pay 3 different patent pools to be sure (which all has different terms), then there's still other patent holders that aren't in any pools and come and hit you with loyalty requests any time under terms however they like to?
So it's not accurate to say that had a lot of companies behind it. That usage came later and even then it was mostly in odd corners of the video industry.
This might just mean that if the claim is found valid, there's seven years' worth of inertia slowing down any effort to move on. Seven years in which HW and SW manufacturers worked to build in the support, and you the user developed your processes or workflows around assumptions specifically tied to that solution. I'd rather know on day one if I should go that way or not.
So I think it's a safe bet the current Apple TV devices are capable of playing AV1 video in software. There's a VLC release for Apple TV:
https://www.videolan.org/vlc/download-appletv.html
https://apps.apple.com/us/app/vlc-media-player/id650377962?p...
https://9to5mac.com/2020/06/22/tvos-14-brings-support-for-st...
YouTube's 4K videos are only available in VP9 and AV1.
So the YouTube app on tvOS has supported at least VP9 for six years and I wouldn't be surprised if it supports AV1 today.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_TV_(device)#4K_(3rd_gene...
There may be a new Apple TV released this year.
The evergreen prediction in the Apple TV world :p. IIRC, Mark Gruman initially predicted the next model would be out H1 of 2024
It’s talking about security cameras, low-bitrate video.
FTA: "Myth Busted: At security camera bitrates (400-800 Kbps), H.265 provides negligible compression benefits. The marketing claims of "50% savings" apply only to high-bitrate content like 4K movies at 25+ Mbps, not security cameras."
But i wonder if the future could depend less on fixed-function compression methods and more on AI networks that recreate the video but weight much less that a compressed video.
Neural codecs such as github.com/Orange-OpenSource/Cool-Chic
Sure it'll take a while since it's implemented in chips and hardware so we got efficient and fast hardware encoding/decoding.
But a ~25% higher efficiency sounds very promising in times of increasing storage prices and chip crises.
avi2ude? av2go?
It works in French d2vid (Deuvid)
How is the case of fighting off Dolby's patent racketeering going? They tried to attack Snapchat for using AV1.
Another example is Qualcomm
Take a look at https://gitlab.com/AOMediaCodec/SVT-AV1/-/work_items/2269 for details (PS: SVT-AV1 claims to be suitable for AVIF yet doesn't support YUV444, lel)
I’m on a 2019 Intel MacBook Pro: 2.6 GHz 6-core i7, 64 GB RAM. The machine is still more than powerful enough for normal desktop work and software dev, but YouTube in Chrome has become borderline unusable for me. My internet is fine, Safari plays the same videos smoothly, and YouTube “Stats for nerds” shows plenty of buffer but the decoding makes youtube unusable in chrome for me.
Download the video with yt-dlp & play it in mpv you'll see it even flies on a potato.
Play the same in browser and it'll be dropping frames left and right.
[1] https://www.phoronix.com/news/dav1d-0.5 (it's mislabled as a core i3, but the 3770K is a core i7).
For encoding, you can always write a simple encoder that use only the features that were present in mpeg2, and it will be about as efficient as mpeg2 as well. Newer codecs has more features that allows more efficient encoding, at the cost of more processing.