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I presume you're not a woman, because there's cervical screening for women aged 25-64 every five years. Also depends on what you mean by "mid life", but there's breast screening offered to women aged 50-70 and bowel cancer screening offered to people from 50 to 74 every two years.

There are real trade-offs with screening, and screening too much has harms as well as too little, although I'm not qualified to make a judgement on where that line sits relative to where it is in the UK.

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This is the real reason women live longer than men.

Doctors won't see me unless I'm dying, or at least tell them I am. And I am, if I understand things correctly, which I might not tbh, in a high risk group for prostate cancer, given that I was diagnosed with chronic prostatitis at 22. I've even asked for checkups but was denied. And where I live you can't really pay for health care (but you can pay to skip the line, which I guess is almost the same thing).

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What country are you in? Not challenging, I'm gathering perspective.

I am in the US with health insurance through my employer and I get blood tests every 6-12 months to check for abnormalities as well as a standard interview for how I'm feeling and whatnot. Also have a few prescriptions that require 3-month checkins.

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Sweden. Our system is pretty good at emergency care, but absolutely abysmal at preventive care, imo.
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The Netherlands seems to be more or less similar, although I’ve had a mixed bag with medical knowledge an experience during emergency care: excellent to middling.

When I lived for a while in the UK, my GP strongly suggested close monitoring for a couple of things, and we saw improvements in some measures with lifestyle changes. Others were “we’ll keep an eye on it, if it gets bad, off you go for an inpatient visit to get you an extra 10 good years”.

Back in the Netherlands I have to get pushy and even a bit obnoxious at my GP before they even consider the concern, let alone schedule a blood test.

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The HPV vaccination eliminates most forms of cervical cancer. Australia reports a 95% drop in cervical cancer in the cohorts that got mandatory widespread HPV vaccinations. I didn't look into how that changed pap smears.
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I don't want to pile into the - this is not true.

But it's not true. We get regular bowel cancer screening - you get it every 2 years once you hit 50 - https://www.nhs.uk/tests-and-treatments/bowel-cancer-screeni...

And there are also regular health checks available once you hit 40 - https://www.nhs.uk/tests-and-treatments/nhs-health-check/

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From a US perspective, even this seems wild to me. I've always been told that at least an annual physical exam with bloodwork is highly recommended as the standard of care for adults of all ages.

Not everyone chooses to get them, of course. But ACA insurance plans here offer at least one annual physical exam free of charge (considered preventative care).

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Cynically - this sounds like an opportunity to sell you more medical care.

The NHS isn't perfect, but one of the things it does well because of it's structure is minimise costs holistically. It's cheaper to treat conditions early, so usually implements appropriate screening to catch things. If they don't do regular checkups like this it's because they're of minimal value.

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There’s a decent amount of public health research that suggests that annual physical exams don’t actually have a large impact on health.

In the US case specifically, I always wonder how much of the benefit is just “here’s a free appointment with a doctor once a year”.

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It's not free. If you bring anything up, you will be charged. I know because I've paid hundreds of dollars for "free" physicals that way.
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It's free if you don't bring up things that should technically have been a dedicated own appointment.

The idea behind physicals is they're considered preventative care... catching problems early, often before there's any overt symptoms. For example, checking your cholesterol and A1c levels before they progress to heart failure or diabetes.

Once you're showing symptoms, you've left the realm of preventative care and it's now diagnostic/treatment for a established issue.

(ACA only provides 100% free coverage for visits that are 100% within the "preventative care" box.)

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Annual exams were included in the ACA but as I understand it there is no evidence to show that they improve health outcomes. I had one once in 15 years when it was incentivised by my employer (presumably trying to show that we were low risk to reduce the rates they paid?) but otherwise my doctor has never tried to book me for one.

I think I'd prefer the UK system where if you worry something is wrong you can see a doctor free of charge.

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Anecdotally, I've found yearly physicals with full blood workup very helpful in heading off issues before they become much larger issues. For example, a random blood marker pointed at mold exposure. I thought that was strange, I didn't think we had any mold. Then I tore open one of my ceilings, there was a very slow leak in the bathroom above the top of that drywall was covered in mold. I replaced all of that drywall, and that blood marker shot down, and a few others improved drastically, and my energy levels improved. By going regularly, you get to see the trend lines on various things - those other markers had been going in a worrying direction over time.
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Do you happen to recall, which blood marker this was? In my living situation, mold might be an issue, but it seems to be hard to actually test for it.
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I wonder how accurate that is. As in, these screenings are meant to detect early signs of issues like diabetes, liver problems, cholesterol, blood pressure, and so on. Is the case that many people are healthy and don't need it? That we haven't had a long enough sample time to know how screening in the 30s affects outcomes in the 60s?
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That tends to be part of the regular health checkup.

I think that there's a working assumption amongst US folk that because the NHS is is publicly funded, it must be terrible.

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Actually, I would've have assumed the other way - that the NHS was better than the US system. Which was why I was shocked when you said health checkups aren't allowed before age 40. :)

US healthcare plans offer an annual physical exam every year at all ages. Looking at the UK NHS website, it seems to be only offered there after age 40, and limited to once every 5 years? Am I reading that right?

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> Actually, I would've have assumed the other way - that the NHS was better than the US system.

I thought it was relatively uncontroversial that the major problem with US healthcare is not quality but cost. And the UK NHS is widely regarded as one of the lower quality implementations of single payer in any modern social democracy [0].

[0] https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/rankings/health (#23, but Canada is actually worse!)

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That’s exactly what they said?

> it's entirely possible you'd simply never see a doctor again in your life until you're ready for your prostate exam in older life

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I'm confused too. Prostrate screening starts at age 50 in the US. Every response seemed to corroborate the original point at least as applied to men.
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That's not quite true - there's a 5 yearly Health Check which is offered to those over 40 with no other known health issues (in England, but Scotland/Wales/NI have similar schemes).

Local councils are responsible for arranging invitations for those not currently registered with GPs, so it ought to be more or less universal - though there are inevitably a few people who'll slip through the net.

It's pretty basic, but the evidence suggests it's been reasonably effective at dealing with the "he didn't see a doctor for 40 years and then just dropped dead from a heart attack" stereotype.

https://www.nhs.uk/tests-and-treatments/nhs-health-check/

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In the US it's entirely possible to do that as well. I've never been forced to see a doctor outside of getting a form signed before grad school.
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well what did you do during covid? Even if your school/employer didn't require vaccination during covid, most schools I attended at different phases of my life, well before covid, required some new vaccine or other. I think in the US it's pretty hard to get through school without visiting a doctor after childhood vaccines.
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I get my vaccines at the pharmacy. At my current age its flu and COVID every year. TDAP every decade. I'll be adding more once I'm in my 50s, which is rapidly approaching.
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Interesting, my insurers, through my employers, have always required a annual physical
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Required in what way? Better coverage (or lower rates) if you do it? Or is it literally no coverage if you don’t?
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Maybe they meant life insurers, not health insurers?
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That's interesting, I haven't ever been required to do that. I tend to have an annual checkup around my birthday, though it isn't really a physical exam anymore, more of a "hey lets do some blood tests and discuss if there's anything noteworthy we should talk about." They quit actually poking and prodding about the time I turned 45 or so. Doctor says the physical is mostly a waste of time.
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USA, I havnt had a physical in ten years. I would be shocked if someone asked for it in a professional setting.
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Well that's interesting. Mine always say it is covered, I've never had an insurer (in the US) say its required. I could see it for certain types of life insurance, maybe?
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I have never seen or heard of this requirement before. I don’t even see how it could be enforced. What would even be the point, the insurer (even if employer funded) is not allowed to deny or price coverage based on health risks of the insured.
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Early detection, while things can be cheaper to mitigate?

Fixing hole in tooth is far cheaper than replacing a full tooth, for example.

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> In the UK once you've had your childhood vaccinations it's entirely possible you'd simply never see a doctor again in your life until you're ready for your prostate exam in older life.

It's entirely possible to do this in the US, too, but it's not the default path. I know some people who think it's a point of pride to brag that they haven't been to a doctor in 20 years. I know other people who never miss their annual checkup and are frustrated that their doctors won't order every test they hear about from their podcasts. The US approach to healthcare is varied and confusing to outsiders, even if you remove all of the unreasonably complex insurance stuff from the equation.

> There are no regular checkups or preventative care on the NHS for mid life adults unless you're proactive

If you wanted to request an annual checkup, could you ask for one and get it without problem? Or would they require a specific reason to visit?

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I'm not a big proponent of restricting speech but "Ask your doctor about..." advertising should be banned in the USA. If you don't have medical training you're in no position to decide what medical conditions you may have or what treatments might be appropriate. If you want to be a doctor, go to medical school.
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The idea of advertising prescription drugs is absolutely bonkers in and of itself. If I recall correctly, the only reason they say "Ask your doctor about..." was a regulatory compromise that allowed such advertising. Telling the general public to simply "take Procrapin for their constipation" was deemed too extreme: The general public doesn't have the medical training to diagnose themselves or recommend treatment, but instead the manufacturer was allowed to urge the general public to nag their doctor about a medicine--that was seen as fine.
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> "Ask your doctor about..." advertising should be banned in the USA.

That advertising is illegal in almost all other first world countries.

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> The US approach to healthcare is varied and confusing to outsiders

Is it? If find it to be very much in line with the "personal freedom above all else" which permeates US culture.

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The last insurance carrier I had, through an ACA Marketplace plan, has an incentives program for members. If you go see the PCP for an annual checkup, you get about $50. If you "go paperless" 100%, you get another $50.

There are about four incentives altogether, and the money is loaded on a Prepaid Visa card that is branded by the insurance carrier. The funds are not restricted, and you can spend them on anything where Visa is accepted. The cards are sometimes cycled out and replaced, but I do not know if the funds had an expiration date. There were no fees to hold the funds, and no fees to spend them.

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One of my employers had that incentive but only for one year. I assume they wanted to demonstrate that as a population we were low risk but after testing us once there was no reason to do so again.
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> In the UK once you've had your childhood vaccinations it's entirely possible you'd simply never see a doctor again in your life until you're ready for your prostate exam in older life.

It is not customary in the UK to see a doctor at regular intervals for checkups?

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How.. do people find out they’re diabetic before organs are borderline failing?
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There are actually periodic tests for people over 40 in the UK. The GP comment is wrong.
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You can get sti tests and other tests as and when required or requested. I have had blood pressure checks, blood diagnostics etc offered regularly by my doctor. Usually they are just to rule things out but they definitely offered.
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> “There are no regular checkups or preventative care on the NHS for mid life adults unless you're proactive”

This isn’t quite true. There is a free “NHS Health check” for adults aged 40-72, which you’re supposed to do every 5 years and includes basic checks like blood pressure and cholesterol. I certainly get messages from my GP nagging me about it from time to time.

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The downside of that model is that "be proactive" assumes people know what they should be proactive about
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Is that necessarily bad? I mean, aren't there studies showing that annual checkups don't make much difference in mortality or healthy longevity?
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This isn’t true. Women have regular smear tests and there’s also the midlife MOT every 5 years, to give but two examples.
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Birth control? Pap smear? Mammogram?
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To be fair, almost nobody is going from childhood vaccinations > late-middle age without seeing a doctor. And when you do go with an ailment general blood tests seem pretty standard these days at GP's along with standard vitals checks. They also do preventive care where necessary. Every woman is invited for cervical screening once they turn 25 and then every few years until they're in their 60's. Regular mammograms are also a thing after a certain age/depending on risk factors. Bowel cancer screening too. STI testing is free and, depending on where you live, done by post. Also depending on your definition of 'childhood' there are a few vaccines given when you're a teenager (HPV for example). And if you ever travel you'll be visiting the doctor for vaccines then too.
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I don't think I've been to a doctor in close to 40 years, except for treatment of a few acute injuries. I've had a few vaccine boosters, but I get those at a pharmacy.
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