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Stealing is not a word that applies only to physical objects.
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Any word can be applied to any concept with any meaning thanks to the fluidity of vernacular.

Language is all just sounds and markings. Anything can be redefined to mean anything, and anyone can decide to aggressively assert their preferred definition of a word.

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Words can change meaning, but whether or not they actually do is a social function of how they are observably used. Words can also have multiple meanings concurrently. When it comes to the word "steal" in these discussions, people generally are arguing past each other in regards to the single definition they're thinking of.

Of course, you can assert that the meaning of "steal" only applies to physical items. You are well within your right to do so. You'd be wrong, but you can do it.

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I agree, someone certainly has the right to have an incorrect understanding of that the word "wrong" means.

To be fair when someone tries to shift the meaning of words everyone doesn't just have to go with it to appease the large corporations trying to do that. I of course don't mean intellectual property rights or copyright infringement, you can perhaps apply the word "steal" there, not when talking about LLM traces which are currently legally uncopyrightable, though. Unless we're actually talking about someone breaking into Anthropic's servers and stealing their files, then again... if you do that you can always just blame the LLM you used.

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"Stealing" in the OP merely refers to the lack of intent in sharing the plaintext traces.

This is the same use as "the baseball player stole third base". Nobody is depriving anyone of anything, nobody is committing a crime. It is simply: someone has obtained something in a way someone else did not intend.

There's no legal claim being made here, you have made it up.

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> people generally are arguing past each other in regards to the single definition they're thinking of.

It's more than that. By claiming that copyright infringement isn't stealing, they're usually doing so to justify such behavior: if the original thing remains with the owner, it couldn't have harmed him, could it?

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By conflating unauthorized copying with stealing, they're usually doing so to justify excessive punishment. If the owner lost what they had, they were obviously harmed, right?
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Property rights are about control, not about physical objects. Never has been. By committing copyright infringement, trespassing, or, yes, stealing, you're asserting for yourself the privilege to take something that doesn't belong to you (exclusive control) from someone else.
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Legally speaking, is murder stealing?

(And yes, "legally" matters, because we're talking about laws in this thread, not colloquial "their life was stolen" type expressions.)

This question is obviously (hopefully) rhetorical, no need to answer. My point is that different crimes are different. Otherwise literally every crime is stealing, and no other words for different crimes matter. Obviously different crimes are different.

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IAAL but this is not legal advice.

In most U.S. states, the actual crime will be a specific reference to a section in a Penal Code (or, for Federal crimes, the U.S. Code). For civil actions, it's likely to be a reference to a common-law tort, or some Federal statute providing a private right of civil action.

In the case of taking a physical object from someone else, most states call it "theft" in the penal code, or "conversion" for the common-law tort.

But all of this is academic anyway. I'm not entirely sure what your point is.

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> I'm not entirely sure what your point is.

I edit my reply as you were responding to make my point explicit.

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Maybe but I try to give people the benefit of the doubt, especially when the argument at face value is factually incorrect.
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This tired argument--that copyright infringement is not "stealing"--is at least as old as my Commodore 64.
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Yeah, considering that taking trade secrets is absolutely stealing, this could be considered stealing
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Stole the words right out of my mouth!
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Funnily enough in some legal systems it does. Where I live the legal definition of “theft” is: Taking away a movable thing.
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That's also... a different word.
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Not in my language.
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Please provide an example of an action legally considered "stealing" that does not involve stealing physical objects.
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Legally speaking "stealing" isn't even a crime. You might be thinking of a different word: theft.

But to answer your question more directly, here's the most common example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft_of_services

And another for good measure: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_theft

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Digital piracy is considered stealing in most countries.
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No, it's not.

It might be criminally prosecuted, but "stealing" has a precise definition that usually implies removing someone else's possession.

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Where is this so defined?
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It's doublespeak. You don't have to perpetuate it.
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Source please.
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Unauthorized removal of bitcoin from a wallet, depositing into another?
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Doesn't even have to be Bitcoin. Could be an ordinary set of bank accounts.
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Yep. Lots of money-ish examples.
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let me copy your data without authorization over here real quick
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