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Living very close to busy highways is known to generate poor air quality. I recommend anyone in those locations buy an air purifier for their kids' rooms.

I bought a couple reasonably priced HEPA purifiers and I change the filters on schedule. Replacement HEPA filters are very cheap.

Also watch out for things that we do indoors that can generate bad air quality. I had a friend who bought a VOC meter and noticed very high readings in his kid's room. He traced the source to his chemical and paint cabinet nearby, which he never considered because he couldn't smell anything. Throwing out a lot of the old containers dropped the measurements to the unmeasurable range.

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HEPA filters are counterproductive in standard air purifiers. Air purifiers pump their cleaned air directly into the dirty air of the room. It doesn't matter if that cleaned air is extremely clean, because it's immediately mixed with dirty air. What actually matters is how much clean air you produce: the "clean air delivery rate" (CADR).

The more effective the filter the more it restricts airflow. If a filter is only 99% effective instead of 99.99% but allows double the airflow, it provides nearly double the CADR. To benefit from HEPA you need a clean side and dirty side, like in a clean-room setup.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_air_delivery_rate

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You don't need to seperate the clean and dirty air. Mixing them isn't as efficient but it should still be roughly 63% efficient (1-1/e).
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The point isn’t that the HEPA filter won’t work under those conditions, it’s that if you can get away with not separating the clean and dirty air, you can achieve better filtration overall with a higher flow, lower resistance filter at a lower noise level. HEPA filters shine in use cases where you need single-pass filtration, like vacuum cleaner output filters or clean room air filters. If you don’t separate clean and dirty air, the filter will still work, but you aren’t taking advantage of its main distinguishing quality, which is its single-pass filtration performance.

If you get to recycle the air through the filter several times, MERV-13 offers much better performance tradeoffs for a residential air purifier because you can recycle the air through it much faster at acceptable noise levels. My home air purifier recycles the volume of my home every 15 minutes or so, vs HEPA filters which produce totally clean air, but since it just mixes with the dirty air that doesn’t matter as much as the rate at which it cleans air.

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A reasonable compromise is achieved by an air purifier that has the outlet on top because it’s blowing the filtered air well away from the inlet side and generally circulates the air in the room.

I used to work in the cleanest room in the state, that wasn’t a lab, back when I lived in Adelaide, and top-inlet button-outlet in a raised floor data centre is how the air handling units in the main data hall worked, so you can simulate that to a certain extent.

> The more effective the filter the more it restricts airflow.

This isn’t the whole story. Surface area and flow rate are factors.

A residential home is aiming to improve air quality, rather than grow flawless silicon ingots etc.

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What you wanna say is it might be more efficient with more CADR per minute with less filtration than less CADR an a higher filtration.

But a HEPA filter is better than no filter. Even if would be more effective with another.

(Also depends on size of hepa filter and room to clean. Large enough filter and small enough space and Hepa can clean all the air)

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Any air purifier should be able to cycle the air in a normal room often enough that it should be quite clean in a short time.
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If the purifier can filter the air more quickly than air leaves the room it'll still reduce the amount of pollutants in the air. Most people aren't going to create a "clean side" and "dirty side" setup for filtering the air in a room.
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I think that is what they're saying: the point is that if you're doing this, you don't want to optimize for the cleanest air leaving the filter, but more for throughput.
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If you only use 99% it means there are small particles you can't catch. Being faster is meaningless if you can never clean the air.

Air purifiers are designed to run 24/7 and all they do is catch particles. Eventually all the particles will be caught. The one I got also detects if there is a lot of particles and will spin faster accordingly.

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>If you only use 99% it means there are small particles you can't catch.

Air filters don't work like sieves. The smallest particles are easier to block than the mid-sized particles. See:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechanical_filter_(respirator)

Clean Air Delivery Rate is often specified for specific pollutants. One is smoke, which is mostly small particles.

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what a nice externality example "I recommend anyone in those locations buy an air purifier for their kids' rooms"

I drive the car, you buy the purifier.

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If you’re so inclined, you can build your own air purifier with laser cut panels or 3d printed panels and use a cheap ikea air filter and standard PC fans. All the parts are readily available, and user repairable.

If you pair if with an Apollo AIR-1 you can have home assistant ramp up and down the fans with a PC fan controller based on live readings of PM2.5 in your home. I did this with the help of Claude code.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:6826527

https://makerworld.com/en/models/2470181-nukit-tempest-euro-...

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if you're going to IKEA for the filters you might as well buy the whole purifier. it's cheap and it works well
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Looks like a cool project, but the 99.97% HEPA filters are the expensive part. Building yourself only makes sense if you want to choose your own aesthetics or enjoy doing it.
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Didn’t the Apollo 13 crew make an air scrubber out of duct tape and hope? Surely a cardboard box, a box fan and a hepa filter covered in tape gets you 90% there
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This was done during COVID and made international news.
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I really wish the DIY folks would measure the airflow and sound levels on this sort of thing. CADR and decibels are going to vary wildly with fan choice
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I came across this site which has pretty comprehensive data about PQ curves (the chart for determining CADR given filter impedance) at different noise and power levels: https://www.cybenetics.com/evaluations/fans/204/ (many other fans tested as well but I've been liking the value of P14 Pro PST)

However they look somewhat commercial and I'm not sure the funding/incentives so definitely corroborate with other sources.

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It's a good start, but for VOCs and gases you'll need activated carbon. Those 2-in-1 filters do exist but cost more. And many are scams because they don't have enough volume of activated carbon.
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Getting rid of the VOC source, if possible, is much easier than trying to filter it.

> Those 2-in-1 filters do exist but cost more. And many are scams because they don't have enough volume of activated carbon.

Any filter with a little bit of carbon added is going to be useless after a few days, or maybe even hours.

The only VOC filters that work have multiple pounds of carbon, with the good filters having upwards of 10-20 pounds. It also has to be replaced regularly.

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I was referring to the gases from the cars on the highway more than easily removed indoor sources.
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My common winix air purifier has a replaceable carbon filter.
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Why would they cut corners? Activated carbon isn’t expensive.
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Because it’s not obvious to most customers that a corner’s been cut. Same reason most new construction in the US sucks.

You can safely put a washer and dryer on the upper floor of a house if you add a proper floor drain, but you’re unlikely to see anyone add a floor drain in new construction because buyers aren’t looking for it. Now multiply that by everything a buyer isn’t looking for and you’re talking real money.

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> You can safely put a washer and dryer on the upper floor of a house if you add a proper floor drain

European here, we've always been placing washer/dryer stacks in our bathrooms without needing floor drains. We have machines with a system called Aquastop [1] that stop the water flow if the machine detects a leak inside the system.

[1] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquastop

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You have companies choosing the component that cost 10 cents instead of 15 cents even if the 10 cents component will break 10 times faster than the more expensive one.
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You simply cannot put enough activated carbon in a little foam thing that goes in front of a filter to do anything useful.

The real activated carbon filters have 10s of pounds of carbon. The little black foam thing that comes with those 2-in-1 carbon filters is useless.

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And manufacturers do a sneaky swap too, my Coway 150 which is a great air filter by the way, came with a nice thick grid of hexagonal cells each filled with carbon granules - that insert alone weighs like half a kg. I ordered official filter and carbon filter replacements off their website ....got a thin carbon "foam" that weighs maybe 50g instead.
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But it does cost money and so… corners are cut
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The clue is in your name
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Agreed, just buy air purifiers with HEPA filters and change them regularly. The main expense is buying one for every room, but it's one of those expenses you wish you had made sooner.

DHH is also a fan (pun not intended?): https://world.hey.com/dhh/air-purifiers-are-a-simple-answer-...

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Might be better to upgrade your air handler if you're putting HEPA in every room.
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Also he had the kid switch to smoking filtereds
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NO2 is a very hazardous air pollutant which doesn’t get a ton of attention. The main sources are combustion engines and gas stoves. Asthma looks to be mostly caused by gas stoves.

I’ve got a sensor that can detect no2 and it noticeably spikes when using gas. Switched to induction after that.

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>Asthma looks to be mostly caused by gas stoves.

Do you have a source for that? Because as far as I can see, asthma isn't _that_ less common in countries where gas stoves are barely used, such as germany. Still has like 60-70% of the asthma cases the US has. There's also a ton of other pollutants the US hasn't yet forbidden, but the EU has, which could also explain a lot of the difference in rates.

Don't get me wrong, it's certainly a good idea to get rid of gas stoves. I just think it's a bit much to declare them the primary cause of asthma.

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This was in the news last month and might be referring to the same source

'Replacing gas stove can help asthmatics as much as some drugs, US experts find'

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2026/jul/24/replacin...

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Germany has a ton of NO2 for other reasons, for example diesel motors
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> N02 is a very hazardous air pollutant which doesn’t get a ton of attention. The main sources are combustion engines and gas stoves. Asthma looks to be mostly caused by gas stoves

That makes sense but the unverified claim is that gas stoves are the main contributors to asthma.

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I’ve often wondered about this.

Does the area immediately above where the gas stove was have an exhaust fan that vents to atmosphere?

I would have assumed a properly specced exhaust fan would capture and remove combustion products from a gas stove?

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Can you smell what's being cooked on the gas stove? If so, the combustion products from the stove are also reaching your nose.
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That’s a good point, and obvious now you point it out.

On the other hand, when water turns into steam at standard atmospheric pressure, it expands in volume by about 1,700 times.

Whereas the gas in your stove is already a vapour, mostly methane, turning in to mostly water vapour and carbon dioxide. So the expansion ratio isn’t going to be anywhere near as high as that.

I’d say you’re still right.

Still, I wonder to what extent an exhaust fan does help.

If the exhaust fan can vent x cubic feet per minute and the room is y cubic feet in volume then it takes z minutes to full ventilate the room, etc etc.

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Air molecules move randomly at over 300 meters per second (not coincidentally close to the speed of sound).
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That’s a hyper local measurement, and temperature dependant.

You’d sure notice if the air in your kitchen was swooshing around at 671 miles per hour.

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It squeezes me with approximately the weight of an elephant sitting on my chest. But humans are adapted to this and don't notice. It helps that the insides of my lungs are being squeezed outwards by the same force. Otherwise I surely couldn't breathe.
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I’ve never once been in a property that had an exhaust fan sufficient. I’ve had the exhaust on full blast and the spike on the air quality sensor on another floor of the house is rapid and massive.

I suspect a sufficient ventilation would require something more like a lab fume hood that can pull a negative pressure on the area around the stove.

And from what I have seen, a good number of exhaust fans are straight up fake and just ventilate back in to the room rather than ducted outside.

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> And from what I have seen, a good number of exhaust fans are straight up fake and just ventilate back in to the room rather than ducted outside.

Culinary Cargo Cult.

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Doctors used to prescribe a "change of air" in the 18-19th centuries. Maybe they still should.
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Sanitariums

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanatorium

I guess the modern descendants are the health retreat, the rural airbnb, and the day spa that offers oxygen therapy.

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I wanted to long for the time when people hated "Malaria" and wanted to move to "Beunos Aires". But they believed the arrows chase us at daytime and the plague engulf us at night, like in the Psalm.
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Since Eastern Europe is relatively poor and sensitive to energy prices a lot of households invested into insulation, new windows, etc. Last 20 years there was also a huge boom for heat recovery ventilation. Such a simple and inexpensive device that provides so much. Should be first item in every household to invest into.

Funny part is that locals here are absolutely scared of any sign of draft or direct aircon. All while it's what actually saves their health lol.

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I don't understand why we keep on building right next to highways which are some of the worst things for our health. You don't need to live in the countryside for that. Just stay roughly 1km away from them and the situation is significantly better.

There is evidence of a lot of ugly diseases caused by this, without even mentioning the constant 40+ dB background noise.

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Because the highways are built to the places where people and jobs are?

Once you build anything of significance, a highway gets built to it anyway.

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In London that is difficult – there is not a lot of space.

Plus the idea of having everything within a 15 minute walk including access to public transport.

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highway != public transport

And pollution from bus or tram is much easier to control. Looking at you petrolheads who like to "Rolling coal"

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Yes but in London you are never far from a highway you cannot get away from them.

In London now many if not most buses are electric.

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A friend of mine does research on air pollution from cars - the TL;DR is you should not live within a third of a mile of a highway. The falloff is pretty sharp, but you don't want to be in that zone.
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What about biking near a highway? E.g. in Chicago the lakeshore bike trail is next to a busy 8 lane highway
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I remember I’ve read somewhere that jogging is actually net harmful for health in the city due the air pollution.
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Shame you cant remember the source. Ive long since wondered if its actually more deleterious for my health to cycle to work in London due to air quality. I came to the conclusion that youre damned if you do and damned if you dont in the end, as in London at least, many of the tube lines have particulates higher than is considered safe
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Probably depends on the tube line; one of them, can't remember which now as I left the country in 2018, left me with black snot on each use. Cycling wasn't that bad, but neither were the other lines.
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Add to the mix - indoor gyms are perfect for spreading respiratory viruses.
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https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/10817787/How-ch...

Generations of men have been taught that when walking with a woman on a pavement, they should always take the side closer to the road allowing her to keep further away from the traffic.

But Dr Iarla Kilbane-Dawe claimed that Londoners should avoid walking too near the kerb because on busy streets, air pollution can be up to a third higher than on the inside of the pavement.

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So in effect, if you want to be the chivalrous man (which no one forces you to be) you still should choose the roadside side of the pavement.
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Doesn't it depend on the mix of diesel/petrol/electric? In particular many cities ban or restrict diesel.
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Tyre pollution is significant regardless of fuel source.
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EV's have 100% reduction of NOx/tailpipe VOCs, 100% reduction in soot/tailpipe particulates, 70% reduction in brake pad dust (due to regenerative braking), in exchange for 25% increase in tire wear.

Vehicles are capped at emissions of 3mg/mile of particulates and 30mg/mile of VOC's. Something like 1-2mg of tire material actually becomes airborne PM10 particles every mile (and only about 10% of that for PM2.5 particles).

So, EV's really do a great job reducing emissions from 35mg/mile to <2mg/mile (PM10) or even <0.1mg/mile for PM2.5. A 95%-99.8% reduction in air pollution near highways would seem absolutely fantastic for me and my children!

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11636205/#:~:text=W...

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  > EV's have 100% reduction of NOx/tailpipe VOCs, 100% reduction in soot/tailpipe particulates, 70% reduction in brake pad dust (due to regenerative braking), in exchange for 25% increase in tire wear.
I replaced the tires on my Tesla model 3 at 74,000 km and they still had tread above the indicator bars. I'm now at 140,000 km and the tires look great, the back ones look like they're only about halfway done. I might be an outlier but my previous Subaru needed tires every 50,000 to 60,000 km.

Needless to say, the brake pads have never been touched and when I saw the left front one at around 110,000 to 120,000 to patch that tire, it looked like it was just installed. The regen braking almost completely eliminated the brake pad or rotor as a wear item.

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Yeah, aren’t the EV tyre’s compounded differently in some way to account for the extra weight?

If the weight on each wheel is greater I’d have assumed the tyre would need to be harder, for the same performance.

I would have assumed that would counter the otherwise additional wear, but I keep hearing EV tyre pollution is higher and yet everyone who owns one has always said they aren’t changing tyres an more than they did on their combustion cars.

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Given that tires have a range of warranties from 40,000 miles to 80,000 miles ... it's possible that the tires are wearing 25% faster but the consumers aren't noticing because it's still around the normal 40k-80k mile range.
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No matter the warranty - I still notice when I replace them.

And the warranty requires proof of periodic rotation. If the tires are wearing evenly, as is the likely case for a new vehicle, then rotation costs significantly more than the pro-rated rebate.

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Until one has a battery thermal runaway event.

Or an entire truckload of batteries catches fire.

StasheD is an engineer and firefighter, quite eye opening.

https://youtu.be/diaUMNONpvw?si=7lxYS8iJHLvCTUkt

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One might similarly note the awe-inspiring destructive power demonstrated by tanker trucks of fuel catching fire and causing interstate bridges to collapse.

https://archive.ph/VadwU : Tanker Truck Fire Collapses Bay Area Overpass

https://archive.ph/4INYw : I-95 Overpass Collapses in Philadelphia After a Tanker Fire

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Gasoline or diesel fires can be extinguished.

Lithium ion battery fires less so.

Surly you don’t mean to imply that a sufficiently large lithium ion battery fire couldn’t burn down a bridge?

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The odds of an EV catching fire are lower than for a gasoline vehicle.

And safer, less-flammable kinds of battery are in development. Less-flammable kinds of gasoline are not.

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Is that an aged adjusted statistic?

Or is it comparing with the entire gasoline vehicle fleet?

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Why ask things that you can easily look up?
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What about the vicinity of large or uphill streets inside a city? I am curious how the data compares with highways.
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Notably, most major cities have been building tons of housing (especially ‘affordable housing’) right next to highways, as it is the only areas that aren’t already built out with tons of high value houses.

Surprise surprise.

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It's a dumping ground for poor people.
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It’s not like they do it on purpose rubbing hands
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Housing development happens at random?
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Developers build apartments where they can make money from them, in other words where they can rent them for enough that they'll make back their investment. It's very expensive to build housing, so the only way to make the investment back and have low rental prices is to try to make the building costs as low as possible. A big part of those costs is the price of land.
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What's even the point of this comment?
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The parent and thread seemed to be arguing that low cost housing was intentionally built in places that disadvantaged the people who lived there.
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People don't build housing to intentionally disadvantage people but they do intentionally build housing for disadvantaged people
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Or, the only places to build houses with reasonable costs are in areas that weren’t already built out with very expensive houses.

Which will tend to be less desirable areas, by definition.

One approach, of course, would be to also make existing houses less expensive/desirable. Notably, wealthy people tend to have the resources to fight efforts to do that.

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The other approach is to expand what land is available to build on. I understand that in the UK, farmers consider it a lottery win if they get planning permission for some of their farmland to become housing.

Despite what many in the UK think about it "being full", this is mostly an illusion from how cramped are the parts in which the houses are allowed to go; the country as a whole is mostly undeveloped.

(There are of course other considerations, with "why did you build on a flood plain?" being one of the failure modes in the UK).

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Well, letting people build houses right next to freeways and/or on things like earthquake faults or flood plains is what is being done here. Which is, uh, also a problem. Since those people are now at much higher risk, eh?

Building on farmland has national security concerns (as countries are slowly realizing), as the country ends up dependent on foreign food imports after awhile. Can't grow food effectively when there is a subdivision there instead eh?

In most high demand areas (which are the ones everyone is complaining about, generally), all the decent land (or even just 'normal' land) is already developed.

Bonus - next time around, even the flood plain land might be 'too expensive' to develop on, and folks will only be able to afford houses at the dump, or in a swamp, or the like. Yay.

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Plus the US literally built highways in the middle of poor neighbourhoods.
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Woke activists love the word "systemic" for a reason.

If a bunch of good people acting in good faith produce a result an evil mastermind would want does it matter if they are good? On many levels obviously yes, on some practical levels the system and the incentives still need to change.

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My anecdote would be the revesre.

Living in the country gave me bad hay fever/asthma in the city much less asthma.

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You discovered that you have an allergy.

Not exactly the same thing.

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Same. I visit my family in London and my sleep improves because of no hay fever. Though then I get black boogers, horrible chalky hair, a renewed sense of misanthropy etc
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You need a NMAID Non-Misanthropic Anti-Inflammatory Drug.
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As long as the country doesn’t involve large scale farms because the glyphosate sprayed on them causes serious issues.
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